goodbye samurai

[deadman1204]

Oh the hyperbole!

[FrogBiscuit]

Oh the hyperbole!

Are you lost?

Or do you have just a strange tick that drives you to post entirely disconnected, irrelevant and nonsensical posts?

Or is this a case just of you having learned a new word and are just inappropriately using it where ever you can?

[Amh_Wilzuun]

The changes feel like they were made to optimize a developer workflow and damage calculations rather than on what is most fun for the players. Devs, please keep your priorities straight!

[xAFROx]

The changes feel like they were made to optimize a developer workflow and damage calculations rather than on what is most fun for the players. Devs, please keep your priorities straight!

Definitely feels like something more self-serving. They've given about four different reasons on why the change to SAM happened and none of it really adds up under scrutiny except for the one about them 'feeling' limited by a specific action that the job came with at launch. If it was really so bad, they should've altered it rather than take it away. Them asking us to look forward to changes when the change only seems bad to the whole player base seems very concerning and I would like for them to address this in some way.

An elaboration of what's intended would be a start, or listening to feedback that many have suggested would go a long way in showing they listen.

I just don't want to be in that boat of falling out of love with a job again. It already happened to me with DRK. SAM is all I gave left alongside GNB

[Edweena]

Definitely feels like something more self-serving. They've given about four different reasons on why the change to SAM happened and none of it really adds up under scrutiny except for the one about them 'feeling' limited by a specific action that the job came with at launch. If it was really so bad, they should've altered it rather than take it away. Them asking us to look forward to changes when the change only seems bad to the whole player base seems very concerning and I would like for them to address this in some way.

An elaboration of what's intended would be a start, or listening to feedback that many have suggested would go a long way in showing they listen.

I just don't want to be in that boat of falling out of love with a job again. It already happened to me with DRK. SAM is all I gave left alongside GNB

When Yoshi-P was on stream addressing the noticeably fuming chat regarding Samurai changes he said the designer ,who made the decision, said this was "for the playerbase" so uhm yeah.
These changes aren't going to bring in MORE people like the Summoner or Monk reworks (which made the jobs more attractive to a wider audience while burning some of the core fans out, as a former Summoner enthusiast myself), so we do have a tangible statistic to back up our feedback.

None of the Samurai changes have addressed any issues regarding skill floor unlike the Monk changes from late SHB into EW (Grease lightning becoming a passive buff, thus no longer punishing those at the skill floor who would let it drop, along with positional requirements that were SO HEFTY it was the jobs only real identity lol) so it's really out of touch for these changes to be stated as "being for the playerbase".

And no Kaiten's removal is so little of a skill floor issue as it was the only thing that made people pay attention to their kenki, and instilled a rhythm which made tending to overflow smoother and a much less conscious effort as you would press it in rhythm with Iaijutsu, thus making a much more steady and slow kenki gain for use on shinten, instead of now just spamming it ASAP (I even moved my kenki bar offscreen lol, press shinten when it lights up, same with shoha) which kind of just feels bad.

[darkdyllon]

When Yoshi-P was on stream addressing the noticeably fuming chat regarding Samurai changes he said the designer ,who made the decision, said this was "for the playerbase" so uhm yeah.
These changes aren't going to bring in MORE people like the Summoner or Monk reworks (which made the jobs more attractive to a wider audience while burning some of the core fans out, as a former Summoner enthusiast myself), so we do have a tangible statistic to back up our feedback.

None of the Samurai changes have addressed any issues regarding skill floor unlike the Monk changes from late SHB into EW (Grease lightning becoming a passive buff, thus no longer punishing those at the skill floor who would let it drop, along with positional requirements that were SO HEFTY it was the jobs only real identity lol) so it's really out of touch for these changes to be stated as "being for the playerbase".

yeah, when he had to defend this person on stream he also responded with "i OK'd the change" let that sink in an BLM main OK'd an other jobs design change, Yoshi is the director, but he has little to no idea what most other jobs really are suppose to feel like.
anyone in an directors role can sign documents, but only the user knows how that product is suppose to be used.
I can admire Yoshi for sticking up for his employee, but at this point, why did this employee came to this decision that removing Kaiten would magically solve their issues and not piss the playerbase off (and even set off an chain reaction of every job fearing they'll get the SAM treatment)
imagine an Dragoon not jumping anymore, no more animation locks, sure, but it would take away an core identity of the job.

[Edweena]

Tenka Goken/Kaeshi: Goken
Really? Look how they massacred my boy! It makes no sense. There was a lot of joy of lining up the cone on groups of enemies, it had range, and the cone was big. Having to move around and adapt to the grouping to get the right angle, it felt GOOD and it looked COOL .... but, now? I get myself right in the middle of enemies and fart slashes from my rear, it has no reach anymore, it looks bad, and feels terrible. It's awful. Please, if anything, change this one back. What is the idea behind this design choice? IDK Goken can go back to what it was. Please!

So Tenka Goken being changed into a circle aoe may be an attempt to decouple it from requiring a target, and a general homogenization to moving AOE to targetless AOE's as they're more "intuitive" apparently.
This a is a wee bit of an issue on Samurai since we're casting the fucking thing in what amounts to a four+ way intersection instead of the safety of the metaphorical sidewalk.

I myself would like the old Tenka Goken back because it was a bit of variety and led to me having more inputs to maintain the combo and my position relative to and from circle aoes to cone aoes, lots of WASD between the combos!
Also they just inputted an option this same patch for abilities that require a target to automatically select a target upon using the action, which would have done enough to fix the issue for those that struggled with Tenka Goken's target requirements.

[xAFROx]

When Yoshi-P was on stream addressing the noticeably fuming chat regarding Samurai changes he said the designer ,who made the decision, said this was "for the playerbase" so uhm yeah.
These changes aren't going to bring in MORE people like the Summoner or Monk reworks (which made the jobs more attractive to a wider audience while burning some of the core fans out, as a former Summoner enthusiast myself), so we do have a tangible statistic to back up our feedback.

None of the Samurai changes have addressed any issues regarding skill floor unlike the Monk changes from late SHB into EW (Grease lightning becoming a passive buff, thus no longer punishing those at the skill floor who would let it drop, along with positional requirements that were SO HEFTY it was the jobs only real identity lol) so it's really out of touch for these changes to be stated as "being for the playerbase".

And no Kaiten's removal is so little of a skill floor issue as it was the only thing that made people pay attention to their kenki, and instilled a rhythm which made tending to overflow smoother and a much less conscious effort as you would press it in rhythm with Iaijutsu, thus making a much more steady and slow kenki gain for use on shinten, instead of now just spamming it ASAP (I even moved my kenki bar offscreen lol, press shinten when it lights up, same with shoha) which kind of just feels bad.

Agreed on both your posts there. Tenka Goken needs to be fixed for sure. It needs to be a cone and it needs to be actually stronger than the combo that generates it, AT LEAST.

Beyond that, though, I've seen all the replies the devs gave out which had promptly been debunked by the players they claim to have made the change for.

Whatever they're trying to do, if a grand rework is in store, I would prefer they at least wait until everything is ready to be implemented. And also, would be nice if the jobs weren't being gutted and adjusted strictly for the latest content. Saw a few people speculating that might be the case and it's pretty confusing why.

[Edweena]

Agreed on both your posts there. Tenka Goken needs to be fixed for sure. It needs to be a cone and it needs to be actually stronger than the combo that generates it, AT LEAST.

Beyond that, though, I've seen all the replies the devs gave out which had promptly been debunked by the players they claim to have made the change for.

Whatever they're trying to do, if a grand rework is in store, I would prefer they at least wait until everything is ready to be implemented. And also, would be nice if the jobs weren't being gutted and adjusted strictly for the latest content. Saw a few people speculating that might be the case and it's pretty confusing why.

Also previously in early EW, or late SHB I remember trying to rationalize the most effective use of Sen on 2 targets, and vaguely got to the conclusion (albeit lost to time with those numbers ;=; ) that tenka goken was a dps increase to use on two targets as it was more cost effective on sen usage while alternating kasha / gekko each w/ a yukikaze for maximum sen and fewer gcds to get into Iaijutsu faster than using just kasha / gekko.

So yes, with how weak Tenka Goken is (and how it doesn't auto crit in comparison to Midare) our 2 target rotation that might have existed IIRC....
- Kasha(3) > Yukikaze(2) > Iaijutsu > Gekko(3) > Yukikaze(2) > Iaijutsui > Repeat excluding double Higanbanas and much more OGCD usage of Shoha (bracketed numbers represent # of GCDS in combo for a visual reminder)
(This was the idea cannot confirm if its true off the top of my head but I do remember doing it at least)
Our 2 target rotation, albeit rarely used, may very well be gone??? It was a lot of fun weaving Tenka Goken in place of Midare instead, getting out more Shoha's as you would require 2 sen instead of 3, 1/3 more Shoha usage!

God I hope I explained that well enough I don't want to dig around for the data and my old notes lol.

[Edweena]

Yeah so I can confirm one source that reinforces the Tenka Goken 2 target rotation, https://saltedxiv.com/sam if anyone wants the link for themselves, from SHB:

When do I AoE and what about Hissatsu: Guren?
Get and keep your buffs up first!
Use AoE weaponskills & {!Kyuten} on 3+ targets.
Use single target weaponskills ( Yukikaze combo + Gekko/ Kasha combo), Tenka Goken and Hissatsu: Shinten on 2 targets.
Hissatsu: Guren is significantly better than Hissatsu: Senei on 2+ targets.

From the web page for those who do not want to browse it themself, yes I'm not crazy for thinking Tenka Goken was a dps gain on 2 targets thank you.

If Tenka Goken is still a dps gain on 2 targets I'll be surprised, it's just hard to look at potencies and immediately realize it since Goken doesn't get the auto crit treatment that Midare does, making it hard to math out myself.