goodbye samurai

[ranzou]

Like others I see in these posts, I finally made a forum account after all these years to add to the feedback on samurai changes.

Tenka Goken/Kaeshi: Goken
Really? Look how they massacred my boy! It makes no sense. There was a lot of joy of lining up the cone on groups of enemies, it had range, and the cone was big. Having to move around and adapt to the grouping to get the right angle, it felt GOOD and it looked COOL .... but, now? I get myself right in the middle of enemies and fart slashes from my rear, it has no reach anymore, it looks bad, and feels terrible. It's awful. Please, if anything, change this one back. What is the idea behind this design choice? IDK Goken can go back to what it was. Please!

Hissatsu: Kaiten
This one I'm more understanding of, but it was fun to use and it looked cool. I will miss the animation. Now I'm spamming more Shinten on targets which is not as enjoyable, although, spamming more Kyuten on groups is. Getting rid of Kaiten feels like another punishment for players who use all their tools properly.

Third Eye
4 seconds is better than 3. Thank you.

Potency changes, I'll leave that discussion to the pro gamers. Where is the joy in a guaranteed critical hit? I just wanted to share how my user experience has become worse. Rotations feel so lame now. We've gone from samurai mains to samurai pains.

If you wanted to get rid of button bloat, weaponskill and ability combos could be reduced into one button each. This would make it easier for people who struggle to do the absolute basics of the job, without punishing those who can play it well. Instead, Kaiten is gone, and the guaranteed crit is an illusion with reduced potency. Wouldn't a guaranteed crit be the same as a higher potency attack with guaranteed NO crit? Get what I'm saying? Or is there enough value range in the guaranteed crit to justify it as actually being a crit for a random higher value? Not a fan. Crits should be a bonus that you get excited about!

Absolutely terrible decisions were made here, enough to make me voice my opinion for something I care about. Please revert Goken if anything. Please bring back Kaiten, or at least program the animation into the beginning of Iaijutsu.

*sheaths katana and throws it into the Ruby Sea* No more pain.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

If you take into account the balancing : Removing Kaiten and potency change.

Removing Kaiten will allow you to use more Shinten. If we base our math on Shinten, this mean Kaiten (20 Kenki) = 216 Potency. But of course, boosting Midare by 50% with Kaiten mean a 330 potency boost.

So they remove Kaiten, added an auto crit and nerfed Midare quite hard : 990 with Kaiten -> 640 auto crit (6.11). 350 Potency loss (crit DMG compensate that a little if you meld full crit tho)

Ogi Namikiri got a strong nerf too. From a total of 2700 Potency (With Kaiten) to a mere 1600 + Crit. We barely compensate the Potency loss with the crit. But that's not even true, the truth is : It compensate the Potency it had earlier but like it has not crit nor DH.

My math are surely wrong in a general mean, I don't take other parameter into account.

I hope for samourai that they will rework it for 6.2 into something more interesting than before. Even more than a Kaiten-based Samourai, At least I hope so

[ranzou]

My math are surely wrong in a general mean, I don't take other parameter into account.

Weather your math here is right or wrong, the general idea of it remains. A thought that I wanted to add is that, in general, they have removed a degree of decision making for the player by removing Kaiten. What I mean is that maybe you don't need to use Kaiten before your Goken or Midare Setsugekka knowing that an unbuffed attack will suffice depending on the situation, and you can save your Kenki for the next one. This applies more to casual content, which I assume is the majority of the player base.

I find joy in strategically thinking about my actions in dynamic scenarios, in any game. I feel that it is a step in the wrong direction to remove choice from the player, unless it is absolutely redundant (which is seemingly not the case with Kaiten). I feel that having 3 separate buttons for 2 different combo chains, and 2 separate buttons for the others is highly redundant. They only reason for their existence is to provide the ability to mess up the combo, and waste hot bar space (especially with controller). Why not consider the UI/UX and increase QOL? Instead, they remove a loved ability and nerf the skills.

"Pathetic." - Lahabrea

[cjbeagle]

I feel that having 3 separate buttons for 2 different combo chains, and 2 separate buttons for the others is highly redundant. They only reason for their existence is to provide the ability to mess up the combo, and waste hot bar space (especially with controller).

I'm actually a huge fan of the 3 different combo chains.

If I just need a stamp real quick to refresh my dot, the Yukikaze chain is faster than the others - player choice and optimization opportunity.

If I'm popping Meikyo Shisui, I generally want to Yukikaze first so all 3 charges are spent on the longer combo chains - more player choice and optimization opportunity.

If I'm out of cooldowns and don't need to refresh anything, just doing the standard rotation, I find the samurai combos more interesting than any other melee.

Samurai: 1-2-3-1-4-5-1-6
Monk: 1-2-3-4-5-6
Dragoon: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-5-4
Reaper: 1-2-3
Ninja: 1-2-3, sometimes 1-2-4

[ranzou]

I'm actually a huge fan of the 3 different combo chains.

If I just need a stamp real quick to refresh my dot, the Yukikaze chain is faster than the others - player choice and optimization opportunity.

If I'm popping Meikyo Shisui, I generally want to Yukikaze first so all 3 charges are spent on the longer combo chains - more player choice and optimization opportunity.

If I'm out of cooldowns and don't need to refresh anything, just doing the standard rotation, I find the samurai combos more interesting than any other melee.

Samurai: 1-2-3-1-4-5-1-6
Monk: 1-2-3-4-5-6
Dragoon: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-5-4
Reaper: 1-2-3
Ninja: 1-2-3, sometimes 1-2-4

Oh no I totally agree the combos are great and that's one of the reasons why I main samurai. To clarify I mean have at least the Gekko, Kasha, and Yukikaze chains as 3 distinct buttons. There's no reason for the player to go from Hakaze to Gekko and miss Jinpu, or say if I use Meikyo Shisui I'm not going to use it on Jinpu or Shifu to get the buffs like earlier versions. Nothing wrong with the combos themselves. I think this is something that can be cleaned up. But if there are players who enjoy having all the weaponskill hotkeys as is, that's totally cool and I can imagine the reasoning behind it (less braindead, etc.)

[cjbeagle]

Oh no I totally agree the combos are great and that's one of the reasons why I main samurai. To clarify I mean have at least the Gekko, Kasha, and Yukikaze chains as 3 distinct buttons. There's no reason for the player to go from Hakaze to Gekko and miss Jinpu, or say if I use Meikyo Shisui I'm not going to use it on Jinpu or Shifu to get the buffs like earlier versions. Nothing wrong with the combos themselves. I think this is something that can be cleaned up. But if there are players who enjoy having all the weaponskill hotkeys as is, that's totally cool and I can imagine the reasoning behind it (less braindead, etc.)

I see! I completely misunderstood you - apologies!

[Ceridwen]

If there's a choice in a combo, it shouldn't be altered. If there isn't, and they're fussing about bloat, then I don't have a problem with combining them into one. One key you hit 3 times, rather than 3 keys you hit in order. It's not like I ponder, then hit the third in my melee combo before the 2nd, after all. If you have smaller hands, small fingers, it would be nice. It's nothing I'd ask for, nothing I'd care about in a big way, but I don't think hitting 3 keys makes it more interesting. If there's no choice. I don't think it would work on most classes. For myself, I have *some* trouble positioning my oGCDs to hit easily between the melee combos, so I'd like it. (I do have a little keyboard, which helps.)

Either way, I'd rather they combine than remove iconic abilities or spells.

[ranzou]

One key you hit 3 times, rather than 3 keys you hit in order.

Thank you, this is a much more concise way of what I was trying to explain. It's not as bad on keyboard, but on controller it's so unnecessary. Playing on controller makes the game feel much closer to an action RPG rather than traditional MMORPG. An MMOARPG if you will haha. In this case, I would definitely rather hit 1 button 3 times. If there was more feedback on hitting targets, it would almost feel like smacking enemies with a combo in FF7R.

It's not like I ponder, then hit the third in my melee combo before the 2nd, after all.

I'll admit, I'm guilty of hitting the wrong one at times if I get distracted. It is the ultimate shame. If you look at a job like monk, it doesn't allow you to get ahead of yourself in the chain.

Either way, I'd rather they combine than remove iconic abilities or spells.

Agreed.

[Ceridwen]

I'll admit, I'm guilty of hitting the wrong one at times if I get distracted. It is the ultimate shame. If you look at a job like monk, it doesn't allow you to get ahead of yourself in the chain.


Agreed.

Oh, by mistake, all the time! Especially on the dragoon - I have flown off SO many edges by hitting the wrong button. Rdm, too. Most recently, I backflipped off Rhalgr's finger, having positioned myself accurately before that. Always humiliating! I should play a class that doesn't so easily self destruct.

[HolyReign]

I am happy that you've taken the initiative in creating a forum account, like many many others have recently, to share your experiences and feedback on the current state of SAM. I am sure by the sheer amount of these feedback threads written by new forum account creators, that the developers have taken note of just how unpleasant these changes made playing SAM.

Cheers.