So...About Blue Mage

[ReiMakoto]

Cause that's where the direction is with Blue Mage, it isn't ever going to be normal. These skills were all designed for party and raiding content.

The beauty and difficulty of doing them on blue mage is because the game sees a party of them as all red DPS, and that means any mechanic that was once role-aligned is randomized. Like any party member could get the O4S earthshakers, versus the healers only with a normal comp. Or you can get any gavel mechanic in A8S. This also opens up interpretation of what skills could be best slotted for the instance.

There is different play style because each of the raids you do bring different skills, as you don't take the exact same skills in each one. Like who wants to be the 'DPS tank' to take a swap, buster they need Frog Legs, not everyone does Or one of the DPS mimics has another heal skill in-case the healer gets involved in a mechanic. You need someone with the fish in A8S, or if you go in using Eureka best-in-slot gear you probably need one of the HP raising skills to survive certain mechanics.

Taking different skills =/= having a different playstyle. All of these skills do not change blu's playstlye, you still burst at your 1/2 min window and filler inbetween, all these skills are doing are adding a situational button, it's like saying having your lost actions (not essences) in bozja changes your playstyle, they don't, they are just momentary diversions from your fundamental kit, which we have mentioned before in the case of BLU has all the workings of a normal job. Like thats literally it though as well, blu is essentially a caster dps that has access to "lost actions/essenses" as part of their kit, give ANY job access to their lost actions from bozja and they'd be able to do what blu does, instant kills and all, they even have thier own version of diamondback and BETTER versions of skills like white wind/frog legs. It boggles the mind how people can't see that BLU's rotation currently is anything other than just another caster rotation with lost actions spiced in, and if we were to give that rotation to people as a normal job nobody loses anything.

[Azuri]

Taking different skills =/= having a different playstyle. All of these skills do not change blu's playstlye, you still burst at your 1/2 min window and filler inbetween, all these skills are doing are adding a situational button, it's like saying having your lost actions (not essences) in bozja changes your playstyle, they don't, they are just momentary diversions from your fundamental kit, which we have mentioned before in the case of BLU has all the workings of a normal job. Like thats literally it though as well, blu is essentially a caster dps that has access to "lost actions/essenses" as part of their kit, give ANY job access to their lost actions from bozja and they'd be able to do what blu does, instant kills and all, they even have thier own version of diamondback and BETTER versions of skills like white wind/frog legs. It boggles the mind how people can't see that BLU's rotation currently is anything other than just another caster rotation with lost actions spiced in, and if we were to give that rotation to people as a normal job nobody loses anything.

It's almost a normal caster rotation. But there is a glaring issue - Moon Flute. That mechanic simply has to go otherwise BLU will become the old SAM on steroids, feeding every raid buff with ungodly burst numbers.

[Zer0ofTime]

I just want to wear my lv 90 gear that lists BLU as being able to use it on my Blue mage without having to wait 2 years.

[ReiMakoto]

It's almost a normal caster rotation. But there is a glaring issue - Moon Flute. That mechanic simply has to go otherwise BLU will become the old SAM on steroids, feeding every raid buff with ungodly burst numbers.

Very true, and as much as i like moonflute as a concept i wouldnt mind giving it up or having a weaker version of it for the sake of balance on a normal job blu, as it does seem to be the only sticking point of its rotation, they would have to compensate elswhere though, as blus damage output without moonflute isnt all that.

Edit: a decent change could be "the next 5 spells cast have the effect of bristle/whistle applied to them and are instant cast" then shorten the lockout time to 10s, that way moonflute helps set up triple trident and matra under buffs

[Deveryn]

Oh I have taken the time investment into account. Given that SE's original plan was to release multiple limited jobs, my suggestion was to take the development time that would go into the next Limited Job and instead spend it on turning Blue Mage into the full job that it should be. This should have no impact on the regularly scheduled program of releasing two jobs with each expansion. They've shown us that they can give us "two and a half" jobs over an expansion cycle. In the future, they can give us two normal jobs as per usual, plus the "remaining half" of Blue Mage so that it may participate in regular duties alongside every other job.

And no, converted Blue Mage to a non-limited status is not moot. Blue Mage is one of the most iconic and beloved jobs of the Final Fantasy franchise. Some are fine with its limited status, but there are many who see it as a total disservice to the job and its fans.

My perspective is fresh on the whole blue mage thing. I understand there's a history, but this is not those games. It's gonna be different. Blue mage is its own way to play and it should be left as such. There's only so much to be done within the confines of this game and its system.

If they start to make it more like other jobs so it can play more with them, it will lose what flavor it has. Even the idea of simply allowing them into roulette as they are forces everyone into the DPS role. Then they have to have a basic kit for whatever might come up. We certainly don't want to have to wait for them to tidy up their spells when they pop into roulette content.

I can't say that I'm interested in the idea of more limited jobs. What would even be different about them? They would likely be limited in the same way as BLU, but just have a slightly different flavor. It hardly seems worth the effort.

[Auryan]

I can't say that I'm interested in the idea of more limited jobs. What would even be different about them? They would likely be limited in the same way as BLU, but just have a slightly different flavor. It hardly seems worth the effort.

BLU's gimmick is about collecting spells and other limited jobs can have a similar niche as well. Take Beastmaster for example: it's entire thing can be about charming and raising pets. Fight alongside a Mandragora and after a while it learns Photosynthesis or Leaf Dagger or w/e. Puppetmaster can be all about collecting parts for your mammet that unlocks different abilities and traits for a slew of different scenarios and synergies. It's pretty vague on what the Master actually does and would probably borrow a lot from the XI iterations, but you get the idea.

[Deveryn]

BLU's gimmick is about collecting spells and other limited jobs can have a similar niche as well. Take Beastmaster for example: it's entire thing can be about charming and raising pets. Fight alongside a Mandragora and after a while it learns Photosynthesis or Leaf Dagger or w/e. Puppetmaster can be all about collecting parts for your mammet that unlocks different abilities and traits for a slew of different scenarios and synergies. It's pretty vague on what the Master actually does and would probably borrow a lot from the XI iterations, but you get the idea.

Pet AI has a long history of being buggy in MMOs. Summoner had its share from problems with the egis. Bahamut would even just sit there and not hit anything. EW finally saw summoner pets essentially take on a more decorative role performing a bare minimum of attacks in a general area. Beast master seems like something that will remain in the realm of NPC capabilities.

Puppet master could potentially work. I think they could do some kind of marionette / mount situation where we have control over a puppet, but we would likely have more turrets. I think rather than being limited, it should actually be something like Arcanist, where it can branch off into at least 2 different roles.

[Soge01]

Snip*

Buuuut, that's the reason why I suggested just making it so you have your standard limited BLU that still functions as it always has, but also an "unlimited" BLU so you can participate in all content from the get go, while limited BLU can still be worked on as a fun niche activity with other BLU players.

For example, when I think of a really good Job that takes an established iconic job and recreates it into something new, but still has all the key traits that still make it what it is. I think of Red Mage. No other Red Mage in any of the previous FF games function like XIV's. And yet, it is still a Red Mage because it still retains its classic roots, just repackaged in a unique way. Its physical attacks are all magick based due to he fact that we have to charge up our rapier with magical energy from casting spells. Our magical attacks and certain support capabilities are all derivatives of Black and White Mage magick made into something entirely new that functions differently compared to the other two and, again, helps charge up our rapier for close range powerful magical attacks.

I think, if the devs think it through well, they could do a similar thing with Blue Mage while keeping all of its core traits that make what a Blue Mage is intact.

Personally, I would say the devs should focus on giving an "unlimited" BLU access to various types of iconic Blue Mage spells that would work well within a standard XIV job class. Again just like how they did it with Red Mage.

My limit of Blue Mage experience is only to XIV, VIII, VI and X, so I can't really give any examples of what I would pick to use for a classic standard XIV job class version of Blue Mage; especially since it's been awhile since I played any of those and XIV as a BLU on my alt. But...I just look at Red Mage and think "you know what? They can make a version of Blue Mage that functions like a standard job if they can do it with the likes of Red Mage and it's weird functionality in previous FF titles". So...yeah, I shut up now. x'D

[Zakuyia]

OH BOI OH BOI cant wait to see Blue face Titania in battle thats gonna be fun. All jokes aside that would be cool. Neir raid offering blue skills is a must. Plus cant wait to see what WOL gives us. Time will tell what goes on. But i hope we get another limited class kinda sad for blue to be the only one all for beast tamer class or something that could use our minions outside lord of vermillion. Puppet master class people were talking about.

[Packetdancer]

Buuuut, that's the reason why I suggested just making it so you have your standard limited BLU that still functions as it always has, but also an "unlimited" BLU so you can participate in all content from the get go, while limited BLU can still be worked on as a fun niche activity with other BLU players.

Sure, I get that. But if you have "limited BLU" versus "unlimited BLU" as basically functionally separate jobs, and you have to strip away everything that basically makes blue magic "blue magic" (e.g., learning the spells by seeing them cast) in order to make it play well within level roulette... why not just make a different caster? Instead of a broken blue mage stripped of its blue magic identity, why not come up with a different caster that has some identity that works better in roulette?

Or, to put it another way: if, in order to make BLU work in normal play, you have to...

• Ensure that BLU learns spells at specific levels like other jobs (rather than learning them in content through observation), so you can guarantee that a given BLU has the necessary spells (rather than joining Roulette at level 63 while only having Water Cannon).
• Strip out the spellbook functionality, so that you can guarantee a given BLU DPS in a roulette has the necessary skills to function at that level, rather than some custom spell-set that doesn't work. (Who's going to want to wait for 15 minutes while a BLU tries to shuffle their spells to something appropriate to whatever they got in roulette?)
• Ensure that BLU syncs down in roulettes, so that (for instance) you don't have 17 AoEs in Sastasha while the other DPS has precisely none.
• Limit BLU to the DPS role, rather than allowing it to tank/heal, so that roulettes can role-match in a sane manner.

...then I would ask, what exactly about blue mage makes you want to play it in normal content? This is not a facetious question, I am genuinely curious; to me, all the things that would need to get stripped out to make BLU work in normal content would be most of the things that I personally feel actually make BLU... well, BLU. As opposed to just another caster?

Yes, it's possible they could basically define a set of spells from the BLU spellbook and just give them to you at various levels, and turn it into a normal caster; mechanically, that's possible. But what would give BLU a separate identity from any other caster at that point? What would make it worth making one of the two jobs in 7.0 be "BLU with a set spellbook where spells unlock automatically level by level, enforced DPS role, and with all the weird buffs/debuffs that would make balancing high-end content (like Savage or Ultimates) incredibly difficult if they had them", as opposed to some other caster?

Personally, I would prefer BLU remain BLU -- and a limited job that can be all the weird things -- and just get another caster. Because if you've split BLU into functionally two jobs... what's the gain? This is a genuine question, because I don't understand what it is that people actually want out of "second BLU".

And you would have to split it, realistically, because 1. existing BLU needs to be able to learn spells in the overworld, but you wouldn't want someone advancing the MSQ with that, and 2. you wouldn't want someone able to power-level "unlimited BLU' via "limited BLU"s absurd overworld XP buff. Among other things.

(I mean, this is leaving aside the fact that if they did make "unlimited BLU" one of the two jobs for 7.0, I can just imagine the howling on the forums about "that's not a new job, they just took an existing job and stripped all the neat stuff out to give us another caster DPS! That's so lazy! We should get a third job!" or whatever.)