PvP Actions Design & How It Could Translate to PvE

[Tenken7]

No, stop asking for this. It makes sense for the fast pace in pvp but that stuff does not belong in pve. Pressing 1 over and over for 10 minutes would be incredibly boring.

That's not what I said and you know it, or at least you should if you read my post in its entirety. 1,2,3 combo is not the only tool in a job's kit. I'm not asking for extreme simplicity, I am, however, hoping for a cleaner hotbar. More buttons don't equate to difficulty at all. Messy and complex are not the same thing either.

[Tenken7]

I think it'd be cool if non-branching combos and boring oGCDs got removed/consolidated, so that hotbar space could make way for faster, more demanding jobs. Unfortunately, Square seems to like removing abilities and replacing them with nothing, so I guess I'm okay with manual combos for now.

Yes! This! what you said right there is the crux of what I meant to say.

Instead of removing good abilities, consolidate the unnecessary clutter.

[Iyrnwaen]

After playing every job in PvP, I realized just how fluid and nice it was to play this game without all of the button bloat. It was an eye-opener as sometimes we don't know that we really don't like a way of doing something until we see a far better alternative.

Jobs that have a 1,2,3 combo, for example, feel like a breath of fresh air in PvP. Never, under any circumstance, have I ever started an opener with 2, or 3 and it is so nice not to have two unnecessary extra actions on my Hotbar, that it's hard for me to go back to the messy PvE action bloat.

in PvP, every job feels very engaging yet clean. So, how could this translate into PvE? I haven't a clue but I am hoping that the people who designed the PvP action system, expand their wisdom into PvE and help us with what I could only describe as action vomit.

I commend SE for a job well done with PvP, especially as it could be considered "early access" of sorts, and I hope that this new and fresh take on actions translates, somehow, into PvE.

Thoughts? Opinions? I'd like to know how the community feels about this.

I think the class redesigns for PvP were a huge success, but I don't feel like they translate to PvE at all.
PvE encounters are scripted, there's substantially less movement relative to PvP,
there's virtually zero target swapping, virtually zero counterplay, and your target is typically relatively stationary.
The complexity of your ability set is one of the things that keeps gameplay interesting in that environment.
PvP kits get by with their simplicity because the encounters themselves are so dynamic.
Go pound away for 5 minutes straight on a target dummy with one of the PvP kits and see how engaging it is.

[Tenken7]

I think the class redesigns for PvP were a huge success, but I don't feel like they translate to PvE at all.
PvE encounters are scripted, there's substantially less movement relative to PvP,
there's virtually zero target swapping, virtually zero counterplay, and your target is typically relatively stationary.
The complexity of your ability set is one of the things that keeps gameplay interesting in that environment.
PvP kits get by with their simplicity because the encounters themselves are so dynamic.
Go pound away for 5 minutes straight on a target dummy with one of the PvP kits and see how engaging it is.

Again, I never said do a copy/paste. I am talking about learning from the design aspect to clean up the clutter. I'm starting to think that people hear what they want to hear and not what's actually said.

[illutian]

Definitely wish they'd combine the combos of things like Fast Blade into Riot Blade; keep Rage of Halone and Goring Blade out of the chain. You're always going to start with Fast Blade and go into Riot Blade...always.

I'd also like to see something like, for BLM, Transpose switching Fire and Blizzard between each other. I can't even have Scathe on the main bars because there's simply no room.

[Ilisidi]

PVP is stressful and hectic and doesn't give you time or need to do a rotation. The one button combos might as well just be one attack for how well they play. PVE is friendly to relaxed, slower game play, which to some players will be a vital feature, not a bug. There's a reason the series rewards have been calculated to give you Archfiend for losing one match per day till series end.

[Reimmi]

What works in pvp wont work in pve
Kills are short and sweet in pvp, a raid boss takes 10+ minutes
If i was spamming 1 button the entire figbht i would be bored out of my mind (hmmm... healers anyone?)

Having said that, i would like to see some of the job fantasy brought into pve. especially with drk and mch

[Lihtleita]

I feel single button combo presses will feel monotonous over the course of an eight minute fight.

[Tobias_Azuryon]

What works in pvp wont work in pve
Kills are short and sweet in pvp, a raid boss takes 10+ minutes
If i was spamming 1 button the entire figbht i would be bored out of my mind (hmmm... healers anyone?)

Having said that, i would like to see some of the job fantasy brought into pve. especially with drk and mch

The job identity in PVP is pretty top notch and makes me wonder why the skills don't do the same things in pve at times.

An example: Anaylsis for MCH. It gives different skills different subabilities and because those abilities are on longer cooldowns you can kind of gauge when to use them and how. In AOE I'd use it on bioblaster, in opener I'd use it on chainsaw/drill, etc. The attempt to cut down on button bloat on PVE skills may be all surface level (Aka since everyone only cares about dps all skills are single buttons for more dps buttons like Reassemble), but the identity of the classes changes when you can do things like drop a turret that gives mitigation and shields (take out the shields in pve) and can feel like a true robotics class master with turret + automaton queen.

SCH having two charge deployment, adlo having damage buff(them being the tatcics/battle healer) and spreading its dot like it used to be able to, and being able to buff both dot OR heals with Recitation gives the SCH more unique feeling of being able to change your tactics to fit the situation. A good sch with this kit in PVE would be able to use recite more on Dot meaning more damage vs it's only purpose now being for raid wides and critlo spread when you have the time to group everyone up and spread it.

Part of the issue is in PVE content everything leaned so far towards "more dps" that one look at how aetherflow is used or how AST got reworked cards tells you that because the meta is "do more DPS" they stopped trying to balance around a lot of alternate abilities and skills. The reason we don't have Recite Biolysis is most likely because if we didn't have recitation only useable on excog and heals that sch would just use it on damage every single time at endgame. I'm not sure how to rectify that, but I feel like some of the other class changes are definitely worth taking a second look at aside from GNB and SGE.

I think WAR is a really great consolidation of its core kit into pvp, and I feel that AST having dual cast and RDM having "Shifts" are super cool too. If they wanted more skill ceiling back in the game it'd be cool to like "the more mana of one element you have the shift you're in" meaning you would want to spike black mana at first and then build up white to add more skill to the dual cast procs and management of mana to keep top dps but also providing some utility.

It'd take a lot more balancing in an already meaty set of class abilities, though. That being said I really love SOME of the new presentations here or presentations of things we had before that were taken. That "variety" is the spice of life.

[drtasteyummy]

Lmao how many people just read the title.
No, for a simple reason, you may think it is fluid others find it boring to have less buttons.
The lack of an AC allows you to acquire tools designing how you want to play the game by downgrading your required buttons but never upgrade.
I, for one have no issue of the bloat and find it quite more enjoyable to press a different button every time.