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  1. #31
    Player
    Duelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3,965
    Character
    Duelle Urelle
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Velhart View Post
    I like where it is going actually. A lot of classes can be flexible to perform multiple roles in a party, and the job system enhances one of those roles.

    (Only example) Gladiator can technically be considered Tank and DPS(not a great DPS, but viable). So having two jobs, one specializing in each, creates more flexibility in one class. So lets say GLA gets access to Two-Handed swords. One day, the GLA is asked to go PLD since they need a tank. The next day, a tank is already present in the party and they need a DPS, you can switch to Dark Knight and pull your 2-handed sword out and perform as a DPS.

    It is just a way to create flexibility within one class and I believe it is a great idea. The idea is commonly practiced in other MMO's and works very well. In WoW, a Paladin has three specs it can change to, Retribution(DPS), Protection(Tank), and Holy(Healing). This makes it so even though you are bound to that class, you have a lot of options to make yourself useful for multiple situations if you dual spec correctly.

    While yes this game does have a job system and can switch on the go, I believe that people should specialize themselves in "one class" and make full use of everything it has to offer. Experienced in multiple classes? Neat. Does most people want to learn multiple classes and jobs and get gear for all of them? Not really.

    Just my input.
    Agreed. Assuming GLA loses access to daggers and gains great sword, you have the ability to focus on certain aspects of the class depending on the job. Considering that GLA still has Riot Blade, Rage of Halone and Goring Blade (yet can't benefit from them when going PLD because the PLD is in the front of the mob), there is room for growth.

    As I mentioned in the other thread, there needs to be emphasis on job traits when setting yourself to a job. In the case of GLA, it should ideally be neutral in traits and then gain the super tank traits when going PLD or the super DPS traits when going DRK. That would play on the class' innate flexibility while helping each job stand out through mechanics.
    (3)
    * The sad thing is that FFXIV turned RDM into a turret, and people think that's what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to combine sword and magic into something more, not spend the bulk of gameplay spamming spells and jump into melee for only 3 GCDs before scurrying back to the back line like good little casters.
    * Design ideas:
    Red Mage - COMPLETE (https://tinyurl.com/y6tsbnjh), Chemist - Second Pass (https://tinyurl.com/ssuog88), Thief - First Pass (https://tinyurl.com/vdjpkoa), Rune Fencer - First Pass (https://tinyurl.com/y3fomdp2)

  2. #32
    Player

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by Duelle View Post
    As I mentioned in the other thread, there needs to be emphasis on job traits when setting yourself to a job. In the case of GLA, it should ideally be neutral in traits and then gain the super tank traits when going PLD or the super DPS traits when going DRK. That would play on the class' innate flexibility while helping each job stand out through mechanics.
    I hope they implement something like that, but they really need to add more classes, like at least three to one per job in my opinion so that down the road they can have some flexibility in jobs like thief, rdm and summoner. There definitely need to be some mage classes as well. When they release more classes they need to take another look at the jobs we currently have and what classes they feed off of. It seems odd to me that BLM gets thm and pgl classes (and archer...?) where maybe BLM will later get thm and geomancer class because they can use Water? Just an idea, but I hope that there are enough classes around to make things interesting.
    (0)
    Daran Gestahl - Hyperion

  3. #33
    Player
    Chinchilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    58
    Character
    Chin Chilla
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 100
    I could have sworn we were told that more classes would be added to make way for new jobs. If I even knew where to start looking I would look for it. I couldn't imagine that if some new jobs come from new classes that other new jobs will come from old classes. At the same time, I could see you needing whm and blm fully unlocked to get access to rdm, however I couldn't see thf being obtained through any of the current classes. I guess time will tell.
    (0)

  4. #34
    Player
    UmJammerSully's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    250
    Character
    Bam Sully
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Rydin View Post
    Each class is designated by a weapon. Which means you can't have 8 jobs that use swords be based off of 8 different new classes.
    Why not? Thaumaturge and Conjurer currently share very similar weaponry with no confusion because Conjurers use wands, canes and crooks whilst Thaumaturges use cudgels, scepters and staves.

    Longswords go to Paladin, Daggers go to Thief, Katanas for Samurai, Greatswords for Dark Knight etc. It really wouldn't be too difficult to take the various varieties of swords from gladiator away and give them to another class/job.
    (1)

  5. #35
    Player Biggs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    982
    Character
    Behemoth King
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Velhart View Post
    I like where it is going actually. A lot of classes can be flexible to perform multiple roles in a party, and the job system enhances one of those roles.

    (Only example) Gladiator can technically be considered Tank and DPS(not a great DPS, but viable). So having two jobs, one specializing in each, creates more flexibility in one class. So lets say GLA gets access to Two-Handed swords. One day, the GLA is asked to go PLD since they need a tank. The next day, a tank is already present in the party and they need a DPS, you can switch to Dark Knight and pull your 2-handed sword out and perform as a DPS.

    It is just a way to create flexibility within one class and I believe it is a great idea. The idea is commonly practiced in other MMO's and works very well. In WoW, a Paladin has three specs it can change to, Retribution(DPS), Protection(Tank), and Holy(Healing). This makes it so even though you are bound to that class, you have a lot of options to make yourself useful for multiple situations if you dual spec correctly.

    While yes this game does have a job system and can switch on the go, I believe that people should specialize themselves in "one class" and make full use of everything it has to offer. Experienced in multiple classes? Neat. Does most people want to learn multiple classes and jobs and get gear for all of them? Not really.

    Just my input.
    I totally agree Vel. I think we could easily get multiple jobs from each class. The biggest thing I think they would need to add would be more job specific abilities that help to seperate the jobs even further from the classes. WHile I know that the current jobs we have are still in their infancy, I would love to see them double the amount of skills each job gets by the time your level 50. By doing so they would flesh out the differences between job and class even further, helping to ease some of the staleness some feel the system breeds now. Not to mention, each time they announced a new class soon to be released, it would be the same as confirming 2-3 new jobs as well :P

    My only hope is that , when they finally DO give us our first new class, I hope they release the first job it has WITH it and not at a later date. I know its a stretch but, what can I say, I like to have my cake and eat it too
    (1)

  6. #36
    Player
    SynMaris's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    164
    Character
    Syn Maris
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by AceofRains View Post
    Just spreading this in a few related threads
    Ultimate Job Guide

    ^^;
    That guide is awesome, I wish SE would look at it, seems you covered all bases. THF though which I loved could use more damage abilites.
    (1)

  7. #37
    Player
    kro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    122
    Character
    Rachel Alucard
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    I still think they should forego that whole "Classes are for soloing and jobs are for partying" concept. It doesn't work.

    The few advantages of the current jobs generally outweigh being able to equip 5 extra cross-class abilities. As it stands, classes like WHM and WAR are unquestionably better at soloing than their respective classes while the rest are pretty much on par depending on what you're doing.

    Being able to equip those extra abilities also means that you have to level up more classes just to get the best ones. A new player will not have all the classes leveled. Therefore, the class will not be better than the job at soloing until much later.

    The point I'm trying to make is that having classes turning into jobs is redundant. Classes get 15 abilities and 10 passive abilities that are all designed to mesh well with the jobs currently available.

    Current jobs only add 5 new abilities, a small change in base stats, and new AF. If new jobs follow that formula as well, then we will end up with some very half-assed jobs.

    Consider Dark Knight for example. If Dark Knight keeps all 15 abilities and 10 passive abilities of Gladiator, it would inherit a bunch of shield skills and enmity generating tools that it likely doesn't want or need.

    If the devs decide to go the path of multiple jobs coming from one class, then they need to make sure that the new jobs are significantly different from the base class. This means a revamp to the 15 actions and 10 passives that the job is tied to as well as the 5 new abilities.

    However, I would prefer that the devs scrap the distinction between class and job and just make new jobs that start at level 1. No more Gladiators, just Paladins and Dark Knights.

    This has the added benefit of letting veteran players start over from level 1 and play with the new players (with a revamp to PLing of course).

    They also wouldn't have to come up with names like "Dark Knight trainee" or "emotionally-perturbed swordsman" for the class that will eventually turn into Dark Knight.

    The current class and job system is fine for this pre-2.0 beta. But once 2.0 hits, I would expect a more fully-fleshed out armory system that can withstand the test of time. The only way I can see that happening is with completely new jobs that start from level 1. New jobs tacked onto existing classes with 5 extra abilities will not cut it.
    (3)
    Last edited by kro; 05-24-2012 at 01:08 AM.

  8. #38
    Player
    Malakhim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1,545
    Character
    Eisen Marduk
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by kro View Post
    ...the rest are pretty much on par depending on what you're doing.
    You don't say.
    (0)

  9. #39
    Player
    Rydin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,821
    Character
    Nyris Reach
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by UmJammerSully View Post
    Why not? Thaumaturge and Conjurer currently share very similar weaponry with no confusion because Conjurers use wands, canes and crooks whilst Thaumaturges use cudgels, scepters and staves.

    Longswords go to Paladin, Daggers go to Thief, Katanas for Samurai, Greatswords for Dark Knight etc. It really wouldn't be too difficult to take the various varieties of swords from gladiator away and give them to another class/job.
    There is an Axe class, a lance class, a fist class, a bow class
    And then 8 classes for Daggers, Long swords, Broad Swords, Scimitars, Great Swords, Katanas, Great Katanas and macuahuitls?
    That really seems to be stretching and contorting what the armoury system is.
    (2)

  10. #40
    Player
    Jocko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    404
    Character
    Cecilia Amor
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    As many have said, my biggest issue with the current class system is that it sort of ruins any sort of long term progression. Once 2.0 hits I'm hoping (and expecting) that leveling slows way, way down, and that having a capped job is something major, with things to do while leveling as opposed to a week grind to endgame where everyone has everything. If multiple jobs are linked to one class, everyone already playing will have everything maxed innately unless they add some major horizontal class development (Which I'm also hoping they do, think SMN and BLU in XI). Not to mention that as things currently are, how varied can jobs be if they share 75% of their skills with other jobs? In a way, it's like regressing back to launch where everyone complained about homogenized class development.
    (0)

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