Multiple jobs from a singular class

[SynMaris]

Just spreading this in a few related threads
Ultimate Job Guide

^^;

That guide is awesome, I wish SE would look at it, seems you covered all bases. THF though which I loved could use more damage abilites.

[syntaxlies]

i originally wanted classes to stem into multi jobs, now i do not. I think if one class gets 2 jobs the only thing making them different are 5 skills and whatever they use as sub-skills. It would feel to much like playing the same job to me and i think they should just focus on more classes and their jobs for now.

Unless the new job drops some class skills i don't think it ll be worth it.

[Arkine]

I would love to see the FFXI formula (or an upgraded version) implemented.

For those that don't know: there were only jobs and at the start of the game you could choose any of the basic 6 (WAR MNK THF WHM BLM RDM) and could unlock advanced jobs at 30 (PLD DRK SAM NIN SMN DRG BST SCH DNC PUP COR) and once you unlock a job you play it from level 1 and use another as a subjob (you have access to all its traits and abilities that are half your main job's level), you could use almost any weapon instead of being locked into just 1 and changing jobs can only be done in your room.

No changing jobs in the middle of a dungeon to easy-mode it, implementing new jobs becomes alot simpler than trying to adapt a class into more than one job without crippling some traits and abilities.

while you're at it, do something about the everybody leveling everything trend, it feels weird that everybody expects to be everything and get loot for everything. (the 7/7 trend is an example of what I mean) Oh a staff? cool I'm a WHM... oh wait a sword, shield, axe and bow dropped too?! I want them all! gimme!.

Quadruple the exp needed to level up battle classes maybe?

[Zyph]

I will consider multiple jobs stemming from one class to be the grandest disappointment since this game's launch, if it happens.

To repost what I posted from another thread: Why would anyone want that? Why would anyone want to be so similar to another class except for 5 job specific abilities when they could be entirely different with their own new weapon type, new ability set, and new job traits that reflect their role? Or did you forget about job traits? You know, those things that define GLA as a tanking job and would be useless on DRK? Not to mention new themes, and new aesthetics, which add life and variety to the game. Also why would anyone want their exp shared between DRK and PLD with GLA being the base, or BRD and THF with ARC as the base?

And Malakhim, the community most certainly does not overwhelmingly want multiple branches.

[Estellios]

I will consider multiple jobs stemming from one class to be the grandest disappointment since this game's launch, if it happens.

To repost what I posted from another thread: Why would anyone want that? Why would anyone want to be so similar to another class except for 5 job specific abilities when they could be entirely different with their own new weapon type, new ability set, and new job traits that reflect their role? Or did you forget about job traits? You know, those things that define GLA as a tanking job and would be useless on DRK? Not to mention new themes, and new aesthetics, which add life and variety to the game. Also why would anyone want their exp shared between DRK and PLD with GLA being the base, or BRD and THF with ARC as the base?

And Malakhim, the community most certainly does not overwhelmingly want multiple branches.

The thing is, there is precedence for DRK to be workable from GLA. The devs have said that they wanted to give GLA great swords as a DD option for GLA. On top of that, the last player poll described DRK as a DD that focused on enfeebling effects. GLA has this in Riot Blade and Goring Blade, and Rage of Halone in a job with better DD stats/abilities could hit pretty hard in theory. Hell, they could stay with 1-handed swords and add a trait that makes GLA/DRK without a shield stronger, and get buffs at the same level as shield buffs that are only usable if you do not have a shield equipped that boost DD.

Ability lists are not going to be hard-capped at 15 per class forever like they are now, especially since they have already said mages would be getting more variety of spells in 2.0. Hell, even a level cap increase would throw our ability lists out of whack. Chances are we will stick with 30 abilities or so as a hard limit but eventually be able to pick which abilities we want to use from our class/job instead of being forced to use all of them.

[Rydin]

Couple points...

1. In the beginning, classes were homogenized, and the line between roles was blurry, at best and nonexistent at worst. Each Mage could heal, nuke, DoT and Enfeeble. Each melee seemed a lot like the other melee classes. Gear seemed to have very little effect. Balance gave way to chaos. A change was definitely needed.

2. Jobs were promised as a way to bring more structure. A defined system that was to be the perfect compliment to the Amorphous Armoury system, which, despite it's flaws, had so much potential.

3. In the updates leading up to, and including, 1.20... Classes receive a major overhaul. Classes are now much more defined. Conjurer HEALS... thaum Nukes, Glad does shit damage but tanks. Lancer builds TP fast and fights at a semi-ranged distance,. Etc.. These changes effectively did what we thought jobs would do, and while some of them were needed (Thaum, I'm looking at you), these changes really eliminated the need for jobs

4. The Job system in FFXIV is released and is a great misconception. Jobs are not more specialized play styles than the classes from which they stem (With the exception of Barcher). In fact, the role of each job is exactly identical to the role of each class (Once again, except for Barcher) as was established in patch 1.20.

And now the problem with this entire argument
Neither side can get what they want.

If you want multiple Jobs per class then you are out of luck. Each class does one thing. If jobs are an extension of that, then what could possibly be the second job for a Thaum? I know you are going to say enfeebles or DoTs... but Thaum doesn't do that now... You'd be stuck with one job that IS the class and another job that is contrary to the spirit of the class. If they wanted Thaumaturge to branch into both a Nuking job and also a DoT job then thaum should have retained some of its low level DoTs.
PLD is a Gladiator... any other class that stems from Gladiator would have to be completely contrary to what a Gladiator is.
Same for WHM coming from CNJ. What would you have Conjurer become?
It would look like this:
Conjurer is a healing class.... It branches into 2 jobs... one that heals and another that heals
OR...
Conjurer is a healing class.... It branches into 2 jobs... one that heals and another that has nothing to do with the idea of Conjurer at all

If you want one class for each job then you are also out of luck. The Armoury system (Which is the cornerstone of the entire battle system) dictates that each class is designated by a weapon. To suggest that multiple jobs can use a sword, for example but not be based off of Gladiator would cause the armoury system to breakdown much like Norman did in Star Trek upon hearing the illogical phrase "Everything I say is a lie"
Each class is designated by a weapon. Which means you can't have 8 jobs that use swords be based off of 8 different new classes.

Yoshi-P and crew have painted themselves into a proverbial corner. I am actually anxious to see how they get out of this one

[Zyph]

~snip~

What they COULD do (oh boy here we go) is make jobs start at level one, equip-able via the soul crystals, and make "classes" into weapon skills only. So like Lancer is the "class" you'd be using if you were to equip a lance while on the Warrior job, etc. "Lancer" would contain all the damaging weapon skills, True Thrust, Legsweeper, Doomspike, etc, as part of it's ability list, and Warrior would get all the utility abilities like Bloodbath, Provoke, Berserk, etc. Obviously, weapons would be limited for jobs on a case by case basis, so WHM couldn't equip great-axes. This would also allow for the implementation of many many more weapon types without having to come up with a "Job" for them, and this would allow people to gear their jobs for different situations. I haven't thought much about how mages would work under this system since it's an idea I just thought about as I wrote this.

I in no way endorse this as my primary crackpot desire, I just don't want to see multiple jobs per class.

[Arkine]

What they COULD do (oh boy here we go) is make jobs start at level one, equip-able via the soul crystals, and make "classes" into weapon skills only. So like Lancer is the "class" you'd be using if you were to equip a lance while on the Warrior job, etc. "Lancer" would contain all the damaging weapon skills, True Thrust, Legsweeper, Doomspike, etc, as part of it's ability list, and Warrior would get all the utility abilities like Bloodbath, Provoke, Berserk, etc. Obviously, weapons would be limited for jobs on a case by case basis, so WHM couldn't equip great-axes. This would also allow for the implementation of many many more weapon types without having to come up with a "Job" for them, and this would allow people to gear their jobs for different situations. I haven't thought much about how mages would work under this system since it's an idea I just thought about as I wrote this.

I in no way endorse this as my primary crackpot desire, I just don't want to see multiple jobs per class.

You can avoid rivers of tears by making it optional, get an NPC that resets your job to level 1 so you can play again if you weren't happy with unlocking WAR as MRD50.

I'd do it, I totally would.

Down with classes!

[Zyph]

You can avoid rivers of tears by making it optional, get an NPC that resets your job to level 1 so you can play again if you weren't happy with unlocking WAR as MRD50.

I'd do it, I totally would.

Down with classes!

Well what I meant was that it makes new players start at level 1 on whatever job they chose, keeping current players where they are in their progression. OR, if they wanted to keep the same unlocking quests, they could allow players to still choose their "Class" at the start of the game like they can now, but all new adventurers would start on the "Freelancer" job (use all weapons but to limited effectiveness), and starting at level 10 they can unlock the other jobs.

Again, still just pure speculation/what if, but the more I think about it, the more I like it.

They could just code around it I'm assuming, right?

Ehh... if they're good at coding (and judging by what I've seen running in game, I'm doubtful) then it would take a bit of a rewrite to make the system robust enough to not cause problems later. Still more than doable, though, it's just not going to (hopefully) be a quick fix.

[UmJammerSully]

Each class is designated by a weapon. Which means you can't have 8 jobs that use swords be based off of 8 different new classes.

Why not? Thaumaturge and Conjurer currently share very similar weaponry with no confusion because Conjurers use wands, canes and crooks whilst Thaumaturges use cudgels, scepters and staves.

Longswords go to Paladin, Daggers go to Thief, Katanas for Samurai, Greatswords for Dark Knight etc. It really wouldn't be too difficult to take the various varieties of swords from gladiator away and give them to another class/job.