Rampant cheating in PVP?

[CptBuckyOhare]

What you are saying is on the casual side of things, in high elo every advantage is an advantage and voice communication is a big one and has been proven time after time.
You can disagree all you want and make big posts and all but it doesn't change the fact.

[Risvertasashi]

voice comms is overrated. Most valuable is knowing what to do and when, in any pvp game. And in FF14, that does include syncing LBs, which does not need voice comms at all. In addition to the quick chat, you can see every LB status (even enemies') on the party frames.

Conversely, if you've got someone that's bad with you in discord, telling them "let's LB together" won't help much. They'll probably whiff or get the timing a bit off if that's what they're prone to doing anyways.

[CptBuckyOhare]

it's a thing, mainly the in-game communication only gives you the ability to call out things you want. In voice communication can be way more elaborate.
i.e in 10 sec's i'll be here attack this then switch here or going to faint attack switch to whm etc.
You get the point and ofcourse communication is a skill, so going on discord with people that aren't good at it doesn't really help.
But in higher skill levels it sure matters.

[Tobias_Azuryon]

it's a thing, mainly the in-game communication only gives you the ability to call out things you want.

So quick chat should be nerfed then yeah? No coordination because that's a skill? No target macro either to help your team burst because that would be unfair. Can't have the LB status because saying LB at 90% is essentially the same as giving a timer for when your LB will be up.

Communication matters in team fights because that's what you're supposed to do in team fights, I'm not going to make up excuses for this game's pvp mode, especially when cheating/class balance is where it's at, because of some arbitrary line drawn about "fairness."

If you want to limit premades to Casual instead of ranked, I'd at least understand (it'd still be stupid). But saying that because people can talk to each other when the current list of issues in pvp are:

1. Win Trading
2. Bots/Scripting
3. Busted Classes
4. People queuing up together anyways
5. Lack of specific quick chat options to allow better team coordination that 90% of other pvp games provide.

comes off as fear mongering for no reason.

People act like you will somehow get stomped less and that it's an all or nothing concept, but there's plenty of ways to balance this out as games like League have shown.

To think that "lack of communication is a feature not a bug" is, in my opinion, a daft take. But I can tell that's not going to change peoples minds.

I can't for the life of me figure out why people would root for lack of playing with friends/FC mates in a game that's literally built around co-op/multiplayer but to each their own.

[CptBuckyOhare]

So quick chat should be nerfed then yeah? No coordination because that's a skill? No target macro either to help your team burst because that would be unfair. Can't have the LB status because saying LB at 90% is essentially the same as giving a timer for when your LB will be up.

Communication matters in team fights because that's what you're supposed to do in team fights, I'm not going to make up excuses for this game's pvp mode, especially when cheating/class balance is where it's at, because of some arbitrary line drawn about "fairness."

Do you even read? I am not saying anything like that. What in your mind made my sentence sound to you like it should be removed or nerfed for that matter.
All I am saying is that voice has a big advantage against non voice users.

I can't for the life of me figure out why people would root for lack of playing with friends/FC mates in a game that's literally built around co-op/multiplayer but to each their own.

If you wan't to have fun with friends just play custom matches, but I do agree being able to team up and que with friends would be nice.
But if so make it pre-made vs pre-made and don't mix them with non-pre-made

[Oldschoolegamer38]

So quick chat should be nerfed then yeah? No coordination because that's a skill? No target macro either to help your team burst because that would be unfair. Can't have the LB status because saying LB at 90% is essentially the same as giving a timer for when your LB will be up.

Communication matters in team fights because that's what you're supposed to do in team fights, I'm not going to make up excuses for this game's pvp mode, especially when cheating/class balance is where it's at, because of some arbitrary line drawn about "fairness."

If you want to limit premades to Casual instead of ranked, I'd at least understand (it'd still be stupid). But saying that because people can talk to each other when the current list of issues in pvp are:

1. Win Trading
2. Bots/Scripting
3. Busted Classes
4. People queuing up together anyways
5. Lack of specific quick chat options to allow better team coordination that 90% of other pvp games provide.

comes off as fear mongering for no reason.

People act like you will somehow get stomped less and that it's an all or nothing concept, but there's plenty of ways to balance this out as games like League have shown.

To think that "lack of communication is a feature not a bug" is, in my opinion, a daft take. But I can tell that's not going to change peoples minds.

I can't for the life of me figure out why people would root for lack of playing with friends/FC mates in a game that's literally built around co-op/multiplayer but to each their own.

the win trading. bot/scripts are running rampant now. when folks are getting polyed out of a primal rend even before the animation spinup that is a problem.

[verdres]

Just because quick chat is a similar advantage to voice chat doesn't mean they are the same and ought to be both accepted or rejected. You may as well argue that the devs should remove "attacking [target]" macro because in theory all other players might listen and focus one player. Talking as if this issue has a binary solution is ridiculous and wastes everyone's time.

[Tobias_Azuryon]

You may as well argue that the devs should remove "attacking [target]" macro because in theory all other players might listen and focus one player.

"Well if you let people do premades/use voice chat they can burst down a single player" They can do that now.
"Well then they can coordinate their attacks" They can do that now.
"If they can talk to each other they can effectively strategize" Well we can't have that in a pvp game can we lol.

What I'm making an equivalence to is that while quick chat and target marking provides the same feedback but worse, it's still able to be capitalized on.

I've queued up with friends in casual for fun to try and get on the same team to coordinate glams out of jokes (like we all dress as dwarves) and if we're on the same team we can still lose? Make jokes about "our skill" if you want, but voice chat isn't some instant win scenario, even if you are good at the game. Class difference, party makeup, luck, overtime, etc are all factors that can come into play.

JUST like with quick chat, if people coordinate in voice chat they CAN stomp opponents. Just like people who actually listen to the target marking countdown macros can ALSO stomp the same opponents. I know because I've done it and it felt a lot better to coordinate than to sit there and watch people yolo into the enemy territory and wonder why they're getting destroyed. People can and should burst down specific players as the priority shifts in battle to win. That's....the point?

I'm sorry that I'd like more than "Attacking <t>" to scream that a NIN and SAM are in the backline ganking me and no one's assisting leaving me to 1v2 them. Having obtuse communication tools isn't better for the mode and lack of premades doesn't somehow make the matches more fair. If people "care" they will use the tools provided to them to coordinate their attacks already, and if they are the meta comp they're going to roflstomp you most the time anyways unless you, too, are running the "meta comp."

Saying we can't have voice chat/premades/etc because then people would have to actually coordinate as a team in the team based mode in order to actually play the mode isn't the gotcha some think it is. It's just an extra layer of nonsense on top of an already nonsense salad of lack of tools and balance in the mode. I'm fine with casual and stuff being its own junk but being screwed in ranked based on randoms inability to shift targets and/or focus on the task without more effective tools to guide/help them feels like crap and I'm tired of pretending like it doesn't.

[verdres]

In all likelihood they made the decision to omit premade matchmaking to prevent dilution of playerbase and collect more feedback. If it makes you feel any better they will probably add a "premade teams only" bracket after some time passes, but allowing premades to fight non-premades is a problematic compromise.

[XgungraveX]

there have been a couple of times when I was going to kill a target and I hit them for 0!! and they just sprinted away. I know their guard was down and it should have been a kill.