The LB of monks, dragoons and samurai should be nerfed

[Lieri]

I read it and imediately thought of PvE LB and stratching my head.

[jrollins89]

You definitely should not have lead off with your bizarre Monk take. Usually you should just throw that sort of stuff in at the end and see if it hits with the momentum of your other 2 more popular points (DRG and SAM nerfs).
Because I can think of about a half dozen other LBs that need addressing before MNKs. "oh no MNK removed my shield with LB"... yeah, WAR does that in AOE. And "shit tons of dmg" is not exactly how I would describe the job, especially in comparison to any other melee DPS except (MAYBE!!) Reaper?

[Dogempire]

...what?

Dragoon LB is imho even worse than the Samurai one (not by far though).

You get 5 seconds of de facto immunity and then a nuke from orbit that is going to deal up to 37,5k damage if you use Geirskogul beforehand. As to which there is no reason not to because you're just going to ignore the vulnerability while mid air and you can follow up with more chonky AoE afterwards. And this is just reliably self-buffed, This isn't even counting potential buffs from party members!
Compare MCH with the highest single target attack in PvP - the LB for 36k damage. Dragoon can easily self-buff to deal higher AoE damage than another class *specifically* designed to murder someone with the LB can inflict on even just a single target. Let that sink in.

Sam's LB is a lot more conditional on its murderous potential although the ability to potentially oneshot an entire party is a bit much, I am not going to disagree there.

WHM LB is fine. It just charges too damn fast.

Except it's overrated and anyone who plays Dragoon knows it is
1. It's very obvious to not group up if the dragoon disappears suddenly and doesn't come back, if a person just disappears all of a sudden and the enemy team has a dragoon you just simply move away from the spot they disappeared from and they can't move their reticle fast enough to catch you
2. It's entirely possible to get stunned/killed after the jump, I can't tell you how many times I've gotten stunned, rooted, charmed, and feared 2 or 3 seconds after popping it
3. Sage LB completely shuts it down, you'll do 0 damage to people in the circle, same with Machinist LB, it'll kill you mid jump
4. Guard lasts 5 seconds, the LB auto-uses itself after 5 seconds

The ONLY time the LB really works on people is if they're just not paying attention and just button mashing, if you have a semblance of awareness you'll see it coming and react accordingly, it's not some small debuff like Samurai has and considering that human eyes are meant to track motion, something suddenly disappearing is very obvious

That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to them giving each individual LB a sound cue when the enemy team uses it because it's really dumb how the enemy team uses an LB but there's nothing to indicate it's being cast, you just get hit with whatever they were aiming at you with no indicator other than after the fact

[ffisdead]

Monk LB doesn't even work correctly. Atleast buff it to where it does what its supposed to do before you talk about nerfs

[gioroggia]

Dragoon's LB is the easiest one to spot and avoid. I mean... Plus Dragoon's not in the same league as WAR/WHM/RDM/SAM/NIN.

It's strong, it's viable, but it's not overwhelming.

People who see the damage output at the end of the match and believe Dragoon is in the OP league forget two things:

1) Dragoon lacks the strongest tool in this game, the one thing everyone complains about: crowd control. I can't think of any other melee that doesn't have at least one form of cc. That means it is much more difficult for a Dragoon to focus down and kill another player than it is for SAM/NIN/MNK/RDM/RPR. You have no tools to prevent them from healing, using guard, and running around. When I am playing scholar, with full health and mana, and a Dragoon jumps me, I think "okay buddy, keep hitting me forever while I heal myself and cast AOE dots on your buddies. When a RDM or a NIN jump me, I'm like "fuck fuck fuck". The lack of cc means Dragoons' damage does not translate into KO's as well as that of other melee DPS'. It also minds you can't find kills for your team by ccing an opponent at the right time.

2) A good chunk of Dragoons' damage is AOE. Since it is AOE, it is not focused, it's dispersed. And what's the problem with that? Well, 100k of focused, single-target damage is simply better than 100k of AOE damage since it is more likely to lead to KOs. Suppose there are four enemy players, and you attack them with, say, a Ninja, and you deal 140k damage distributed among them in the following manner: 85k/30k/15k/10k. Now you attack them with a Dragoon instead, and deal the same 140k damage with the following profile: 55k/30k/30k/25k. The first profile has a considerably larger chance of killing an opponent, as it dealt 85k to one of them over the course of the skirmish. So when you see the damage table at the end of the match and a Dragoon has 850k damage while a Ninja has 700k damage, it is very likely the Ninja's damage helped the team get more kills than the Dragoon's.

So, because Dragoon does not have any type of cc and a good chunk of its damage is AOE, it is less useful for the team than the Stats at the end of the match would suggest.

[gioroggia]

E

That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to them giving each individual LB a sound cue when the enemy team uses it because it's really dumb how the enemy team uses an LB but there's nothing to indicate it's being cast, you just get hit with whatever they were aiming at you with no indicator other than after the fact

As a Dragoon main I agree with everything you said in your comment. But this part about the wound cue... I'm not sure. It seems to me that adding a sound cue to LBs will affect Dragoon a lot since it's a delayed cast while doing next to nothing to other LBs.

[Esmoire]

The take on monk LB is so strange. Like, of all the mechanics that bypass or break guard, it feels like the most fair and not needing of any adjustment. Monk in general feels in a good spot where it just needs a few tweaks and improvements and otherwise I wouldn't change anything about it.

It's a good LB. It should continue to charge fast and be THE thing that monk brings to the table.

[Dogempire]

As a Dragoon main I agree with everything you said in your comment. But this part about the wound cue... I'm not sure. It seems to me that adding a sound cue to LBs will affect Dragoon a lot since it's a delayed cast while doing next to nothing to other LBs.

Well it would apply to other LBs like Samurai or Machinist or Warrior, and I would rather them just increase the LB cast time across the board to add to it as well (Dragoon is fine since the jump gives time to react and move away due to the minimum delay, just needs a sound cue)

The only LB's with burst damage that give any warning are Machinist's snipe and Dragoon's jump, and because of bad netcode you could react with guard but it would still hit for full damage anyways because of the delay on the snipe

[War-Eagle]

Monk LB doesn't even work correctly. Atleast buff it to where it does what its supposed to do before you talk about nerfs

You mean the tooltip that says it should deal an extra 12k to unguarded opponents? Yea I've noticed that as well.

[Atreides]

I just want them to add a very loud dragon roar across the whole map when a dragoon uses the LB. It's way too stealthy and even if 2 people battle you barely notice the indicator where the dragoon will land.
Let alone notice he jumped at all sometimes.