DPS/Healers pulling in dungeons

[vapaha]

I'm going to keep pulling mobs before the tank and they're going to keep taking aggro off of me before I die because they're not grossly incompetent in level 90 content!
I love coming to the forums to read how this game is played differently on other datacentres however, I read on here that people failed the scale balancing on the new 24 man!

Edit : They take aggro from me when I play on my Hyperion alt too ^^

[LittleImp]

I don't think DPS shouldnt use it. after all its an OGCD that you can weave in when you get a chance or even go into a pull with it active. So you lose absolutely zero by having it on. It's the notion that a DPS should pull first and apply those debuffs to the all the mobs before the tank takes them as the optimal route that I dispute. We need to see whether tanks actually wait for the DPS to double pull and apply that debuff to mobs before the tank tries to take aggro for mitigation purposes or if they just go in with it on the off chance it may apply to any mobs. Given how noone waits for anything in a speed run I think its more a case of the latter than the former.

You wouldn't happen to have a video so we can see would you? I'm actually open to learning, the videos I linked don't show this behavior.

https://streamable.com/dsxtwd

There's no need to stall or wait, because jobs like NIN+BLM can outpace a tank by nature on many pulls. Arms mitigation is only one of numerous factors that makes DPS pulling optimal in certain segments in speeds.

The core point is that the tank pulling is essentially just a social contrivance in this game, born of people applying knowledge from other games and older times. People just shouldn't be getting frustrated enough to grief their party, including uninvolved members, over something that in gameplay terms just doesn't matter too much.

[Broken_Wind]

https://streamable.com/dsxtwd

There's no need to stall or wait, because jobs like NIN+BLM can outpace a tank by nature on many pulls. Arms mitigation is only one of numerous factors that makes DPS pulling optimal in certain segments in speeds.

The core point is that the tank pulling is essentially just a social contrivance in this game, born of people applying knowledge from other games and older times. People just shouldn't be getting frustrated enough to grief their party, including uninvolved members, over something that in gameplay terms just doesn't matter too much.

Im willing to bet the number of people that actually turn off tank stance is a lot lower than the number of people who say they will
I also think speed runners should ask first, at the very least outside of expert roulette. Its an alternative style of play that not everyone enjoys, especially if it is thrust on them.
Its not the standard behavior so a lot of the frustration probably comes from the surprise factor

To me its all a symptom of trash mobs needing a MASSIVE buff.
DPS should be in danger if they get aggro. Tanks should have to think twice before pulling wall to wall.
Add to that, AoE rotations are typically more boring than regular ones.

[TaleraRistain]

If three people wanna go fast, why should the tank be allowed to dictate otherwise. At least give it a chance and see how things go.

How is a tank's pull size them dictating anything? They go grab some mobs, some healer or dps thinks it isn't enough and goes and grabs more without even saying anything. The one dictating in that instance is the dps or healer. Plus lots of tanks will do an initial small pull to gauge the party's capabilities.

And everyone keeps saying "Just try it". Why don't the dps and healer just try adjusting to their party's needs for a change? Maybe they'll find out that going by smaller groups makes the dungeon go just as fast as larger ones. With a party that can melt mobs either way, there's no appreciable difference in time spent taking them in small versus large packs. If a party is going slower on small packs, that party wasn't going to be able to melt big ones anyway.

Again, if this is a team based game, then why aren't we encouraging cooperative and compromising behavior and shoring each other's weaknesses up like you'd find in a real team situation?

[Broken_Wind]

I'm going to keep pulling mobs before the tank and they're going to keep taking aggro off of me before I die because they're not grossly incompetent in level 90 content!
I love coming to the forums to read how this game is played differently on other datacentres however, I read on here that people failed the scale balancing on the new 24 man!

Edit : They take aggro from me when I play on my Hyperion alt too ^^

Lets be real, if you die to an add as a DPS it is your incompetence and not the tanks.

[Nestama]

That's only if the DPS doesn't bring the mobs back to the tank, though. If they do bring mobs back and the tank decides to not take them, then it's on the tank.

[TheMightyMollusk]

If the tank is doing their job and using their AoE rotation, and the DPS actually brings the mobs to the tank properly, then the tank can't not take the mobs. Enmity is a joke.

If the DPS is running around with mobs instead of joining the party, then it's on them.

[TaleraRistain]

If the tank is doing their job and using their AoE rotation, and the DPS actually brings the mobs to the tank properly, then the tank can't not take the mobs. Enmity is a joke.

If the DPS is running around with mobs instead of joining the party, then it's on them.

I think the biggest issue is they don't bring the mobs back. They run off, grab things, don't care if the tank isn't there or not, and keep running. Or yank the tank into the middle of the mess they created. It encourages the idea that we don't have to have any situational awareness of others in our party.

[KariTheFox]

Plus lots of tanks will do an initial small pull to gauge the party's capabilities.

I see a lot of tanks say this and I don't get it all. A small pull tells me nothing about the group's capabilities because I am perfectly capable of surviving the damage output of a single-pull on my own. The only way I can see if the group is capable of w2w pulls is to just go for it immediately.

[Nestama]

Yeah, the only way to really gauge a parties capabilities is to pull everything. If things go alright, then the party is good. If things take a LONG TIME to die (like, Arm's Length being used 4 times in a single pull long time), then that's when you start thinking if it's even worth staying in the duty.