Healers need an overhaul

[Lilapop]

Except even with all the problems cleric stance created when forgetting to turn it off, it was way better back then to play healer when healing wasn't required. They can bring it back by just adding the skills they removed, minus cleric stance.

you'd like a full proper dps rotation without healing? this is achievable in today's gameplay!

play a dps class!

[Reiryuu]

you'd like a full proper dps rotation without healing? this is achievable in today's gameplay!

play a dps class!

Except that some DPS and Tanks have DPS rotations *and* decent healing capability compared to most damage in the game. So it's not like other roles are held fast to just their specific roles. RDM and SMN can even raise. The DPS and the tanks even get the lion's share of all the buffing and debuffing in the game.

[Lilapop]

Except that some DPS and Tanks have DPS rotations *and* decent healing capability compared to most damage in the game. So it's not like other roles are held fast to just their specific roles. RDM and SMN can even raise. The DPS and the tanks even get the lion's share of all the buffing and debuffing in the game.

but if one wants to not be expected to heal and doesn't feel like wasting time/slots on the hotbar for something not needed, playing a class literally classified as a healer doesn't sound right for them. if someone wants to do the big numbers without having to heal or being expected to heal, dps class would be their better bet. ++ as you say, they can play a dps with utility heals if they want to (someone shockingly) stop dps-ing to heal.

[Nizzi]

If only you guys were around for the Cleric Stance Dance phase of 14, you'd likely change your tune and understand why we healer mains aren't thirsting to return to those days. requiring us to do DPS is fine asking us to DPS with 8 buttons dedicated to just DPS is ridiculous. I think one of the issues is people don't realize most healing jobs do more than just heal dump, Healing, Shielding, Buffing, and DPS is something the best healer job does.

Okay, you can keep your "shielding, buffing, healing" AST with 1 button and the rest of us can get something else because SGE, SCH and WHM don't have anything to manage. No, hitting Chain Stratagem on SCH every 2 minutes isn't "managing a buff" either.

DPSing isn't done "safely for a few seconds" it's literally done all of the time. Savage and Ultimate are designed for you to constantly be hitting that one button. Even solo healing DSR you cannot escape having your 1 primary damage nuke being the button you hit the most. The fights are designed so you are DPS in everything but name. I'm really not sure why you use Cleric Stance as a reason for why we cannot have anything more than 1 button to press - seems like SCH was doing just fine from a DPS perspective back in Stormblood where old Cleric Stance didn't exist. Nobody is asking for a "samurai level DPS rotation", stop creating strawmans nobody is asking for. If having 2 more DoTs to manage on SCH would be "samurai level" I really have no clue what to say to you. We can keep bad things in the past while also bringing back good things again. Nobody is asking for punishing systems like Cleric Stance, stop trying to use it for a justification on why they gutted healers in Shadowbringers, an expac after they removed old Cleric Stance.

[IDontPetLalas]

Okay, you can keep your "shielding, buffing, healing" AST with 1 button and the rest of us can get something else because SGE, SCH and WHM don't have anything to manage. No, hitting Chain Stratagem on SCH every 2 minutes isn't "managing a buff" either.

DPSing isn't done "safely for a few seconds" it's literally done all of the time. Savage and Ultimate are designed for you to constantly be hitting that one button. Even solo healing DSR you cannot escape having your 1 primary damage nuke being the button you hit the most. The fights are designed so you are DPS in everything but name. I'm really not sure why you use Cleric Stance as a reason for why we cannot have anything more than 1 button to press - seems like SCH was doing just fine from a DPS perspective back in Stormblood where old Cleric Stance didn't exist. Nobody is asking for a "samurai level DPS rotation", stop creating strawmans nobody is asking for. If having 2 more DoTs to manage on SCH would be "samurai level" I really have no clue what to say to you. We can keep bad things in the past while also bringing back good things again. Nobody is asking for punishing systems like Cleric Stance, stop trying to use it for a justification on why they gutted healers in Shadowbringers, an expac after they removed old Cleric Stance.

Having started healing as a SCH when cleric stance existed I had far more fun back then- not that I am saying that we need to have the exact same system- but it was perfectly possible to heal and have interesting (and meaningful) DPS options back then.

[KDSilver]

If only you guys were around for the Cleric Stance Dance phase of 14, you'd likely change your tune and understand why we healer mains aren't thirsting to return to those days. requiring us to do DPS is fine asking us to DPS with 8 buttons dedicated to just DPS is ridiculous.

I was there.
I liked it.

Do I think it was healthy for tha game ? I don't.
Stormblood was a good standing point for healer imo. Just had to adjust and fix some things here and there.
Shb hurt healer the most.

I think one of the issues is people don't realize most healing jobs do more than just heal dump, Healing, Shielding, Buffing, and DPS is something the best healer job does.

No.
I had a friend of mine who was new to the game. She started really quickly to throw rocks (whm) during downtime because her class and the healing design had nothing else to offer.
She was not that great of a player because she had everything to learn.

Healing has to be done every 20 to 30s at best most of the time. It's very scripted.
Once you start playing the same content over and over again, your brain memorize when damage appaear. And you start realizing you have plenty of time to do something else.
Healing kit are really strong and we are bloated with a lot of healing skills.

However, Heavensward still had some engagement that was fun to keep.
At least shielding had some meaning since we had less oGCD and we were to one in charge. Less party mitigation.

HW Scholar had that feeling. You needeed to shield properly, safely using the few oGCD you had otherwise you were left spamming succor which barely restored anything.
You had to be careful with your mana and aetherflow usage. Aetheflow used to be a real mechanic because it was better the spend a stack healing to save the other healer a GCD than using it on energy drain.
You could micro manage your fairy and forcing her embrace on dedicated target with macro or manually.
You had diversity with eye for an eye or virus to reduce damage taken.

So yes, I played during that time.
I would not say we should return to these days.
But a lot of interesting interaction have been taken away and nothing to replace them to the point that. What used to be engaging and fun to learn and get better at has become one of the most boring and interesting role of the game.

[Selvokaz]

Wait, you just said they had more to learn, so the game needs to put the healers full kit in the first 10 levels or your friend and people like them will get bored? I hate to say it but who's fault is that? The Black mage starts out equally as slow, fire or ice, fire or ice.
Also, did this friend have invincibility? Cause I still remember being a low-level conjurer and when I wasn't casting stone or protect back then I was healing myself because I was getting pummeled and had I not been cast healing spells I'd be dead. This brings me back to what I was saying earlier, people do take damage few abilities in most healing jobs kits can bring a target from 10% to 100% with one use, if the entire team is getting that low often you as the healer are in for a rough time, unless again somethings changed and GCD heals always crit and if you are in content where you find yourself not needing to heal anyone, shield anyone, then enjoy the stroll in the park, cause there is definitely more often than not going to be times where you are going to be doing your role as healer more than dps. I would say only sign up for harder content then, but everyone is so amazing at that content I just assume its all what other healers do anyway.

[Payotz]

snip

you'd like a full proper dps rotation without healing? this is achievable in today's gameplay!
play a dps class!

Again and again, even with healing requirements being raised substantially more than what it is today, healers have no excuse to not have extra optional dps buttons.
Adding dps options will make the healers who actually wanna press their buttons during downtime... press their buttons during downtime.

How would adding two more dots invalidate your playstyle Sylphie? You can still spot heal every 30 seconds in a raid if you want, it doesn't fucking matter.

Don't you dare tell me that "extra dps buttons won't work" when WoW, the game that has much stricter and higher healing required in content with less healing tools and potencies (to the point that healing rotations are actually a real thing in there), have healers have extra dps buttons (that you have the option to press if you want to).

If ya'll DON'T want to touch the buttons, then that's fine. Don't do it. Keep pressing Cure 1 until your fingers bleed.
Leave the people who want to actually reach the skill ceiling... actually have a skill ceiling.

[Lilapop]

Again and again, even with healing requirements being raised substantially more than what it is today, healers have no excuse to not have extra optional dps buttons.
Adding dps options will make the healers who actually wanna press their buttons during downtime... press their buttons during downtime.

How would adding two more dots invalidate your playstyle Sylphie? You can still spot heal every 30 seconds in a raid if you want, it doesn't fucking matter.

Don't you dare tell me that "extra dps buttons won't work" when WoW, the game that has much stricter and higher healing required in content with less healing tools and potencies (to the point that healing rotations are actually a real thing in there), have healers have extra dps buttons (that you have the option to press if you want to).

If ya'll DON'T want to touch the buttons, then that's fine. Don't do it. Keep pressing Cure 1 until your fingers bleed.
Leave the people who want to actually reach the skill ceiling... actually have a skill ceiling.

guessing you missed my entire argument of agreeing that we need more buttons but thinking they should be buffs/debuffs instead of dps...i would very much like more buttons to press, just not be a dps in every single way, shape, and form but name. we have more than enough dps, arguably that themselves seem to have some balance issues.

with healers being able to out-dps the current dps classes, how would not having more dps buttons invalidate your playstyle? numbers not big enough? play a dps class, and be actually good at it, since a good dps shouldn't be pulling lower numbers than a healer.

[anhaato]

guessing you missed my entire argument of agreeing that we need more buttons but thinking they should be buffs/debuffs instead of dps...i would very much like more buttons to press, just not be a dps in every single way, shape, and form but name. we have more than enough dps, arguably that themselves seem to have some balance issues.

But you said healers should heal! They’re healers, not supports! Buffs and debuffs are still dps related buttons and healers aren’t supposed to do that according to you!