Healers need an overhaul

[Nethereal]

I wonder if Yoshida's next response will be "play a different game"

Verbatim if it does happen: "I think healers who feel that way have played the job for quite a while and have a mastery over it that most players don't. I've always suggesting taking a break to avoid burnout."

[Raven2014]

I'll give you one reason I don't want to see healer having a DPS "rotation": I don't want the co-healers I have to be even worse than they already are. Even with the 1 button spam they already greed too often that they sometime forgot they are a healers. There was a time the only healer I played in PF is WHM, for the simple reason that I don't have to heal with another WHM. Also seeing how often tank and DPS got tunnel vision in keeping up their "rotation" that they forgot/ingore mechanic, I shudder at the thought healer having a rotation one too.


A good chunk of people healers in this game already have the wrong mentality for the role, I don't want to see any change that gonna make that issue even worse. Like ... this thread is a pretty good evidence, the majority here want to have more interesting "DPS", rather than making it more interesting to heal. The green DPS meme is real, and I hate it. The only change I would ever advocate to the healers are fight make it so that healer DPS is a luxury and not the main function of healer.

[QooEr]

I'll give you one reason I don't want to see healer having a DPS "rotation": I don't want the co-healers I have to be even worse than they already are. Even with the 1 button spam they already greed too often that they sometime forgot they are a healers. There was a time the only healer I played in PF is WHM, for the simple reason that I don't have to heal with another WHM. Also seeing how often tank and DPS got tunnel vision in keeping up their "rotation" that they forgot/ingore mechanic, I shudder at the thought healer having a rotation one too.

the reason cohealers dont heal is the same as it has always been: heals dont feed into dps, dps doesnt feed into heals. therefore we first use our lossless healing (be it ogcds or lilies) and once those are gone its a chicken game. whm was (is?) especially bad in this regard because it has always had practically nothing to help without costing them dps.

but the thing is, it doesnt HAVE to be that way. they could add synergy between dps and healing. this argument is only valid as long as xiv's spells are as bland as they are.

[Raven2014]

the reason cohealers dont heal is the same as it has always been: heals dont feed into dps, dps doesnt feed into heals.

And this right here is a splendid example of what I meant by "mentality". Even for WHM, there is nothing inherently wrong with the class, it simply has a different healing style to other healers. The problem with WHM has nothing to do with its ability to heal the party, or even contributing meaningful DPS (without going muppet on it) comparing to other healers, the issue is the player compare their WHM to other WHM on FFlog, that have always been the one, and only problem. WHM has no defficiency from a gameplay perspective, its only flaw is that if you want to have a good FFlog, you have to be selfish. That, and you will hear me say it again and again, has nothing to do with the game.

Outside of Ultimate and first week Savage, there is no content that requires healer to squeeze out every last bit of DPS for a clear. The reason for healer greed is because if the next FFlog ranking requires 90 Glare, so healer don't want to cast only 89 and will push for 91 Glares even if it means jeopardizing the party. This is a problem self-invented by the community due to the internet culture when people care about impressing a bunch of people they will never meet in real life.


You know what, what you said is exactly why SGE is the best designed healer class, since there is almost no trade off between healing and DPSing. But still, that doesn't mean I want all healers to be rework similar to SGE. People complain about class homogenizing because "developers are lazy", yet I think it is the players who are the main reason for that trend, because they can't stand one class having "different" performance at the cost of gameplay diversity while such difference made next to zero difference in game.

[IDontPetLalas]

And this right here is a splendid example of what I meant by "mentality". Even for WHM, there is nothing inherently wrong with the class, it simply has a different healing style to other healers. The problem with WHM has nothing to do with its ability to heal the party, or even contributing meaningful DPS (without going muppet on it) comparing to other healers, the issue is the player compare their WHM to other WHM on FFlog, that have always been the one, and only problem. WHM has no defficiency from a gameplay perspective, its only flaw is that if you want to have a good FFlog, you have to be selfish. That, and you will hear me say it again and again, has nothing to do with the game.

Outside of Ultimate and first week Savage, there is no content that requires healer to squeeze out every last bit of DPS for a clear. The reason for healer greed is because if the next FFlog ranking requires 90 Glare, so healer don't want to cast only 89 and will push for 91 Glares even if it means jeopardizing the party. This is a problem self-invented by the community due to the internet culture when people care about impressing a bunch of people they will never meet in real life.


You know what, what you said is exactly why SGE is the best designed healer class, since there is almost no trade off between healing and DPSing. But still, that doesn't mean I want all healers to be rework similar to SGE. People complain about class homogenizing because "developers are lazy", yet I think it is the players who are the main reason for that trend, because they can't stand one class having "different" performance at the cost of gameplay diversity while such difference made next to zero difference in game.

Or maybe people :
- don't only do group content?
- like to do both DPS and healing - one does not necessarily negate the other.

You are saying that there is some e-peen measuring mentality at work that leads to people expecting that they squeeze every last bit of DPS and not healing people. That doesn't sound like 95% of my co-healers- rather the reverse, a fair percent over heal. I wouldn't be at all surprised that some healers may underheal- just like I wouldn't be at all surprised if some don't DPS- nor would they if more options for DPS were added.

Also, i haven't seen anyone asking for healing to "squeeze every last bit of DPS" we don't even ask DPS to do that in most content aside from Ultimate and Savage - so I really don't know why or where this idea came from

[Deveryn]

Or maybe people :
- don't only do group content?
- like to do both DPS and healing - one does not necessarily negate the other.

You are saying that there is some e-peen measuring mentality at work that leads to people expecting that they squeeze every last bit of DPS and not healing people. That doesn't sound like 95% of my co-healers- rather the reverse, a fair percent over heal. I wouldn't be at all surprised that some healers may underheal- just like I wouldn't be at all surprised if some don't DPS- nor would they if more options for DPS were added.

Also, i haven't seen anyone asking for healing to "squeeze every last bit of DPS" we don't even ask DPS to do that in most content aside from Ultimate and Savage - so I really don't know why or where this idea came from

The mentality exists. People tell newer healers to do things like slot lots of DH and focus dps. It results in some rather poor healers that show up in roulettes, stressing out all kinds of people. I remember one WHM in particular. I was tanking Vanaspati and they would blow their afflatus stacks between pulls to charge lily and have nothing to really sustain me. Even in other areas, like BLU content, there are those that insist it should be ALL about dps and there should be little help for the person tanking. Again, I found myself in a bad situation, with wipe after wipe because there was no way I could hold up to all the damage going out.

[Nizzi]

"bad player exist mean i dont want you to do more than spam 1-1-1-1 sorry that scares me and gives me anxiety"

Some of the biggest babies imaginable in this brilliant community.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Here we go again :shrug:

Let’s gut BLM into 1 nuke + 1 DoT rotation as well since bad BLMs exist. Let’s gut PLD to the point an AoE Shield Lob with 8y radius is all they have because bad PLDs exist. ALL BLM & PLD playerbase should be fine, right? /s

[AngeliouxRein]

Of course that's going to be a strong mentality because this game made damage to be king.
It doesn't help when a large portion of this community wants their time to not be wasted, thus they push for faster clears and faster clears for healers translates into doing more DPS. Healer mains have asked for things to be more heal intense before but that would most likely mean content to take longer, newbie/bad healers to be stressed out and cause even more wipes, along with people instant quitting anything that's too difficult. It's why the only thing we can really ask for is more DPS (variety of buffs for AST) to avoid all that. This game didn't attract the usual MMO crowd that would like all of the increasing dangers the higher level we got but a really casual/first time playing an MMO crowd instead. And some give vibes of this being their first game ever or something.

[Silver-Strider]

Snip.

Those people were doing that before when we had DPS rotations and nothing short of removing all DPS skills will change that. Bad players exist in every role of this game, else we wouldn't have Tales from Duty Finder complaining about No Mitigation Tanks, Green DPS Healers, No AoE DPS, etc. all the time. It's not an argument because it's just bad players being bad and will continue being bad regardless of what they're given.