Healers need an overhaul

[IDontPetLalas]

that's stressful? it's stressful for healers to... heal in dungeons? and yet healers want... more things to do to stress them out even more when their primary goal is a stress factor? confusion. maybe if... teamwork... was applied to keep the healer alive, this wouldn't be a problem. this is a foreign concept in this game for some reason. don't see why healers are expected to be dps/support/with enough hp to practically tank all in one? there are too many healer buttons, which is about the only thing in this little chunk that makes any sense. if you see someone telling one of these "bad habits" why don't you step in and correct them, then? though personally, i haven't seen anyone say "oh just curespam the tank and they'll be fine" at all. anyone who is curespamming simply isn't aware of how to utilize the rest of their kit and figures that they can barely get by with it, and they can. so why would they change if its working for them? there's no motivation to do so.

You're being obtuse now. I really believe that you are purposely in the "throw something at the wall and see if it sticks" phase of someone who sees that they aren't convincing others. Or worse, trying to muddy the waters and stir up arguments.

Because I would really be interested in seeing examples of where people were calling healer DPS/support tanks. Or where healers actually stated "oh if you add a DPS button I will be experiencing more stress".

[Lilapop]

You're being obtuse now. I really believe that you are purposely in the "throw something at the wall and see if it sticks" phase of someone who sees that they aren't convincing others. Or worse, trying to muddy the waters and stir up arguments.

Because I would really be interested in seeing examples of where people were calling healer DPS/support tanks. Or where healers actually stated "oh if you add a DPS button I will be experiencing more stress".

you can think what you want, you have your opinion, i have mine. agree to disagree would be fine.

you want to see examples of people calling healers dps? this thread? wanting more dps properties and less healing? go back and read through it if you haven't yet. it's implied, that if a healer can't manage healing alone, in what world is it logical to assume if we add dps to the mix that they'll suddenly be able to manage both that and healing, when one of the main issues is healers spamming cure? that line of thinking makes no sense whatsoever.

[IDontPetLalas]

you can think what you want, you have your opinion, i have mine. agree to disagree would be fine.

you want to see examples of people calling healers dps? this thread? wanting more dps properties and less healing? go back and read through it if you haven't yet. it's implied, that if a healer can't manage healing alone, in what world is it logical to assume if we add dps to the mix that they'll suddenly be able to manage both that and healing, when one of the main issues is healers spamming cure? that line of thinking makes no sense whatsoever.

I don't need to go back and read through this thread, perhaps you should read your own post - you said that healers were DPS, support PLUS "with enough HP to practically tank all in one" that is your post. No one else has claimed that healers are like that, it would actually be fairer, in some contexts, to describe warriors or even paladins as that strong.

In addition, if you implied that healers can't handle healing alone- then you made that implication.

Finally, we aren't "adding DPS to the mix" as healers already DPS. One of the options that has been propose (there are others) is adjusting how healers DPS. Please go back and read some of the many posts and threads on this.

[Irenia]

healers ALREADY being dps is one of the problems? it was implied in the original post of whoever posted it, healing stresses out healers. so why on earth would it make sense to pile more on what they already can't manage?

I've been ruminating on this.

Assume encounter design stays the same. If healing is stressful as is, making healing harder in content is counterproductive to that goal, at least.

First, let's rebrand "DPS" as "actions taken to end the fight faster". I've seen mention of buffs and debuffs, but we really don't need more buttons that stop us from dying, so that leaves us with it's inverse. If SCH had a complicated rotation to debuffs the enemies' defenses, this is equivalent to a SGE blasting an enemy with lasers for the healer deeps, so let's not let mechanical flavor get in the way here.

As such, the argument in favor of the stressed healers becomes to make the healers straightforward to the point that there is no nuance and nothing interesting inherently in the role; if something is interesting, that's a new variable that can cause further stress.

But the veteran's complaint is that there is not enough complexity in the role. And because encounter design isn't changing, we would need complexity for the "end encounter faster" buttons. So healers would be discount DPS on top of keeping people alive.

So, that means we are stuck. If downtime becomes interesting and fun, then engaging with it becomes a qualifier for player skill, and the stressed will have to come to terms with that and not let this weigh upon them. I personally think the community as a whole can probably handle it; we deal with freestyle DPS and no cool down tanks well enough in the easy content.

If SE changes their minds and increase the difficulty of healing across the board so not dying is engaging in of itself, well, as said before, that's just bonus stress for the stressed out.

As such, I currently am of the mind that the bored veteran and the stressed healer cannot come to terms; their desire for the game pull in opposite directions. Not to say that this is perfect, but this is where I stand as of now...

[anhaato]

This person is definitely doing this on purpose, I’ll never be convinced they’re not a troll.

[Silver-Strider]

snip.

Because that's how the game is designed. Kill X before it kills you. No amount of superfluous support skills are going to miraculously extend the time you have to beat a boss.

Every Healer quest involves fighting in some way shape or form and while they have mechanics for healers (as laughably easy as they've become) you also can't sit there spamming Cure 1 and successfully complete those quests. Same for any quest really. Solo instants as a healer are an absolute slog because the damage you take is so low you never need to heal but they take forever because you only have 1 button to spam the entire time. Even Trust NPCs spend the majority of the time spamming their DPS spells instead of sitting there waiting to heal.

Nothing in this game supports a "Healers should Heal" mentality. I'm not throwing Cure to beat Lahabrea, Thordan, Nidhogg, Zenos, or Emet. I can't shield my way thru their fights and hope they get bored of attacking me. I have to fight back but all I have is some rocks and a gentle breeze to do so.

FFXIV was the 1st MMO I ever played and the experience when I first started vs the experience now is literally night and day. I was never bored of my Healers back in ARR when I was managing 2 DoTs, going in and out of Cleric Stance to do damage, shielding and healing allies with Stoneskin and the rest of my standard GCD healing skills. HW gave me some more oGCDs that were appreciated but they also gave me Aero 3 so I still could fight with. It wasn't until SB when things started going backwards with them removing more of my toolkit and giving me too many oGCDs while outsourcing my old responsibilities to Tanks/DPS instead that things started becoming a problem. Then we get to ShB and Healers have become an absolute joke of themselves. Fairies are glamours, Cards do the same thing, attack options we used to have were replaced with even more unnecessary healing skills and EW just doubled down on that philosophy. Imagine starting a new job that you loved because it was challenging and engaging with plenty of opportunities for advancement but as the years went on, your job responsibilities kept getting outsourced over seas until you're just there to cover some minor paperwork that you could do in your sleep and there's no longer any opportunity for growth. The next step is just layoffs as your position gets shut down entirely and your looking for a new job.

That's where healers are right now. We've asked for our responsibilities back and have been ignored. We're told to shut up by the new people that like the easy workload and think any extra workload would be too hard, completely unaware of how the job was in the past. Giving 1 or 2 extra responsibilities isn't the end of the world and I'm tired of everyone and there mother saying it would be. It worked fine before and could work fine now.

[Shurrikhan]

o amount of superfluous support skills are going to miraculously extend the time you have to beat a boss.

Well... unless the Enrage itself is a 1.x style mob TP skill and said support skill drains that TP, the Enrage is a stacking buff some contributor to which that can be purged via a skill like Repose to delay it, etc., etc.

But that'd require actual support, rather than just Push-Green-Bars-Rightward, skills....

[Silver-Strider]

Well... unless the Enrage itself is a 1.x style mob TP skill and said support skill drains that TP, the Enrage is a stacking buff some contributor to which that can be purged via a skill like Repose to delay it, etc., etc.

But that'd require actual support, rather than just Push-Green-Bars-Rightward, skills....

There are many features from 1.x that are better left dead.

[Shurrikhan]

There are many features from 1.x that are better left dead.

Was simply noting that there are, technically, ways to give supports something to do that affects long-term objectives or constraints, even in fights that are given timers and/or completed by damage, besides just damage.

Such is not a critique of damage nor praise for 1.x.... Not sure why you'd construe it as such.