Healers need an overhaul

[Deceptus]

The intellectual dishonesty is staggering.

It's because they're just a troll. They're trying to be bombastic to start arguments.

Don't respond to them, don't quote them, just ignore them

[Rilifane]

It's because they're just a troll. They're trying to be bombastic to start arguments.

Don't respond to them, don't quote them, just ignore them

The problem is that is something like some of their posts are the latest ones and someone new from outside as in not a healer main that is tired of SE's crap and is still ignorant to the state of the role comes in, then all they see is a post that claims everything is fine and we're all just whiners.

So I generally try to make sure that this doesn't happen and they get the right idea without reading through 60+ pages by dissecting a couple of idiotic statements.
Now let's see how long it takes until a certain individual comes up with the brilliant "See, you're just a bunch of whiners that want an echo chamber!" argument. I'm more than ready to hop into that discussion.

[MintnHoney]

If someone's really going to come in here and think that one guy is somehow representative of the issue at hand, they were probably never going to be amenable to what anyone had said in the previous 64 pages no matter how much sense we try to make.

Lately, at the time of this particular post, there's been a lot of talk about toxic positivity and toxic negativity, and how people's feedback is really not helpful or worth anything, and we've gotten some of that trickling into this thread. Ultimately, I just hope that, when and if people do read through this thread, whether it's the first post, the last post, or any and all of the posts in-between, that they take a moment and reflect on why people try to present their issues in any capacity and how it is important for even the layman to provide their thoughts on a subject they might want to improve, no matter how comprehensive or emotional they may be if they were to enter the conversation.

With regards to this particular thread, I don't know that the devs will ever be willing to acknowledge that there are improvements to be made, but I also think it's important to continue to let these grievances be publicly known, as this isn't an issue that's as isolated as other users are wanting to make out of it. As some of the underlying issues continue to spread to the rest of the jobs' redesigns and "updates," it's best to keep up the feedback so that there's at least a chance we can turn things around.

[Silverbane]

I've been in Internet forums since the Internet was DARPAnet and you needed permission from the DoD to connect to it. In all that time, one thing has never changed:

When your detractors on a thread post personal attacks to the exclusion of responding to your arguments,
When they admit to being afraid that other people will read your posts and believe what you posted, and
When they keep posting about you -- not your arguments, but you -- days after your last post,

That when you know you've won the argument.

Not really a surprise: winning rational arguments happens to be my profession these day, and my bosses and clients all say I'm good at it.

[Shurrikhan]

I've been in Internet forums since the Internet was DARPAnet and you needed permission from the DoD to connect to it. In all that time, one thing has never changed:

When your detractors on a thread post personal attacks to the exclusion of responding to your arguments,
When they admit to being afraid that other people will read your posts and believe what you posted, and
When they keep posting about you -- not your arguments, but you -- days after your last post,

That when you know you've won the argument.

Are you sure you're not mistaking others' having exhausted your arguments (having literally nothing else to say to or about them, especially since you refuse to meet anyone else's arguments, shift goal posts on a dime, regularly strawman, and generally attempt to poke at others' arguments through ambiguities of your own, probably intentional construction) with their excluding your arguments from the conversation?

Not really a surprise: winning rational arguments happens to be my profession these day, and my bosses and clients all say I'm good at it.

There's a mastery evidenced over your posts in this thread, but it certainly isn't the ability to win, or even progress, rational arguments.

Mastery of tropes, on the other hand? Sure. How to subtly fill lines on a bingo card themed around logical fallacies? Certainly.

[Nethereal]

Are you sure you're not mistaking others' having exhausted your arguments (having literally nothing else to say to or about them, especially since you refuse to meet anyone else's arguments, shift goal posts on a dime, regularly strawman, and generally attempt to poke at others' arguments through ambiguities of your own, probably intentional construction) with their excluding your arguments from the conversation?


There's a mastery evidenced over your posts in this thread, but it certainly isn't the ability to win, or even progress, rational arguments.

Mastery of tropes, on the other hand? Sure. How to subtly fill lines on a bingo card themed around logical fallacies? Certainly.

They follow a pretty simple formula.

Give argument, get proven wrong, respond with pedantry, ignore counter argument, I win, onto the next post.

I would probably win every argument I partake in as well If I did the same.

[Troxbark]

I agree with an overhaul but the bigger issue is making content that's ridiculously easy. They tune everyone up (especially tanks) while everything outside of savage+ is a joke.

[LeonKeyh]

I've been in Internet forums since the Internet was DARPAnet and you needed permission from the DoD to connect to it. In all that time, one thing has never changed:

When your detractors on a thread post personal attacks to the exclusion of responding to your arguments,
When they admit to being afraid that other people will read your posts and believe what you posted, and
When they keep posting about you -- not your arguments, but you -- days after your last post,

That when you know you've won the argument.

Not really a surprise: winning rational arguments happens to be my profession these day, and my bosses and clients all say I'm good at it.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha -breathes in- hahahahahahaha
hahahahahaha
ahaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

You are amazing. I love you, this was fantastic. I'm going to use this the next time I'm trolling.

[kyyninen_kirahvi]

I Firstly I must say that I like to play the healer roles. But then again I wish there were something to make them more stand out.

I think WHM is mostly fine. The elemental theme has been lost a bit but I think that would be an easy fix. Have a couple more of elemental themed damage spells.

SCH feel empty to me. Like there's something missing. Might just be that I need to play it more but I feel like I'm late all the time when I play the job. Why do we still have two fairies?

AST is fun but what is the point of the cards if they all do the same thing? 6/8 isn't that big of a number. Give me a reason to care what card I draw.

I don't understand Sage. I mean, what is the point of damage healer if they don't have a proper damage kit? I honestly thought the job would have shields as a level up abilities and at the same time build a proper damage kit to heal. I admit balancing would be hard but it would be fun.

[Raiya]

WHM isn't bad it just need's a few adjustments,
SCH seriously needs it's old abilities like Bane and Miasma back as well as shadowflare.
AST is getting adjusted so I can wait on that.