Healers need an overhaul

[LeonKeyh]

If a role is only fun when your fellow party members are bad at the game, it's not a well designed role. Full stop.

Not true when most fellow party members are bad at the game!


/s

[Silverbane]

I spend 95% of my time in there either casting Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare or Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy, occasionally pausing in the rare occasion someone's in trouble and hasn't self-healed their way out.

I went from playing WHM to playing SGE because the latter is way more fun for me. But there are almost certainly people that enjoy WHM most of all healing jobs, maybe even enough of them that SE doesn't think WHM needs a change. And maybe not. As far as i know, only SE knows how many hours each job is being played, which is probably a good proxy for how much people like each job.

But that WHM might need an overhaul isn't the same as saying all the healing jobs do, as this thread contends. I'm happy with healing as it is because there's at least one healer job I really enjoy playing. YMMV.

[Laphicet]

I went from playing WHM to playing SGE because the latter is way more fun for me. But there are almost certainly people that enjoy WHM most of all healing jobs, maybe even enough of them that SE doesn't think WHM needs a change. And maybe not. As far as i know, only SE knows how many hours each job is being played, which is probably a good proxy for how much people like each job.

But that WHM might need an overhaul isn't the same as saying all the healing jobs do, as this thread contends. I'm happy with healing as it is because there's at least one healer job I really enjoy playing. YMMV.

Every single job devolves to that though.
For WHM it's Dia>Assize>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Dia>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Dia>Assize>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Dia>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Dia>Assize>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Dia>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Dia>Assize>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Dia>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Dia>Assize>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Dia>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Dia>Assize>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Dia>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Dia>Assize>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Dia>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Dia>Assize>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Dia>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Dia>Assize>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Dia>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare>Glare
For SCH it's Bio>Aetherflow>Broil>ED>Broil>ED>Broil>ED>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Bio>>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Bio>Aetherflow>Broil>ED>Broil>ED>Broil>ED>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Bio>>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Bio>Aetherflow>Broil>ED>Broil>ED>Broil>ED>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Bio>>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Bio>Aetherflow>Broil>ED>Broil>ED>Broil>ED>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Bio>>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Bio>Aetherflow>Broil>ED>Broil>ED>Broil>ED>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Bio>>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Bio>Aetherflow>Broil>ED>Broil>ED>Broil>ED>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Bio>>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Bio>Aetherflow>Broil>ED>Broil>ED>Broil>ED>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Bio>>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil>Broil. Replace EDs with nothing for heal use later sometimes.
For AST it's Combust>Draw>Play>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Combust>Draw>Play>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Combust>Draw>Play>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Combust>Draw>Play>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Astrodyne>Combust>Draw>Play>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Combust>Draw>Play>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Combust>Draw>Play>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Combust>Draw>Play>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Astrodyne>Combust>Draw>Play>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Combust>Draw>Play>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Combust>Draw>Play>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Combust>Draw>Play>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Malefic>Astrodyne. with some changes for the opener.
For Sage it's E.Dosis>Plegma>Phlegma>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Plegma>Phlegma>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Plegma>Phlegma>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Plegma>Phlegma>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Plegma>Phlegma>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis.

For every healer you're going to be spamming the same button over and over and over and over and over again, while weaving in OGCD heals every now and then. This doesn't change from the easiest of content all the way to ultimate. You will always spend at least half the time doing this, and most of the time you'll be doing this for more than 90% of a fight if you're at least halfway competent. If you are truly spending so little time doing dps that you somehow think single-button-spam is engaging and a good thing for healers to have. You're either a god-awful healer who's overhealing and trying to mend every nick and cut, or a terrible healer who thinks standing around and looking pretty between mending cuts is in your job description.
Such heavy single-button spam is boring, flat-out. And FFXIV healers are the worst healers I've played out of every MMO and every RPG I've come across in my years of gaming.

[Irenia]

janitorial

This reminded me of someone who liked keeping things clean, and was always bummed out that janitors and the like was always looked down upon. So I won't call healing janitorial in this game. Things get messy often enough that they are actually required.

If I were to compare it to a job, it'd be a job that could easily be replaced or made obsolete with a little work, but you have to pretend that you are busy so you keep getting paid.

Except we're getting paid in comms, and that can't really get you much. So why pretend?

[Silverbane]

Every single job devolves to thatthough.
...
For Sage it's E.Dosis>Plegma>Phlegma>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Plegma>Phlegma>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Plegma>Phlegma>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Plegma>Phlegma>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Plegma>Phlegma>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis.

For every healer you're going to be spamming the same button over and over and over and over and over again, while weaving in OGCD heals every now and then. This doesn't change from the easiest of content all the way to ultimate.

Lets' just put an end to this persistent Big Lie, at least regarding Sages.
Any Sage that only ever does what you say above, in all of the content -- never using Dyskrasia I/II, for example -- doesn't understand their kit or is just being lazy.

Dyskrasia I/II is DPS-positive over everything but Phlegma whenever you can hit two targets. Unlike Phlegma, Dyskrasia is spammable. Accordingly, it should be used in trash pulls, when there are two bosses close together, or when the boss summons ads, especially tankable ads that can be grouped up.

Toxikon is problematic because it's a pain to build addersting and it's not usually DPS positive, but because Dosis requires a cast time and Phlegma and Dykrasia are point-blank-range AoE's, Toxikon finds it's use when you have to move more than slidecasting will permit, and can't be close enough to the target(s) to use Phlegma (if off CD) or Dyskrasia. Because doing any DPS is DPS positive compared to not doing any at all.

Your supposed Sage DPS rotation might be good against a practice dummy.
It might be good in simple fights like The Navel.
But in a lot of encounters, what you advocate Sages should do is something only ignorant or lazy Sages would do.

[Amenara]

Lets' just put an end to this persistent Big Lie, at least regarding Sages.
Any Sage that only ever does what you say above, in all of the content -- never using Dyskrasia I/II, for example -- doesn't understand their kit or is just being lazy.

Dyskrasia I/II is DPS-positive over everything but Phlegma whenever you can hit two targets. Unlike Phlegma, Dyskrasia is spammable. Accordingly, it should be used in trash pulls, when there are two bosses close together, or when the boss summons ads, especially tankable ads that can be grouped up.

Toxikon is problematic because it's a pain to build addersting and it's not usually DPS positive, but because Dosis requires a cast time and Phlegma and Dykrasia are point-blank-range AoE's, Toxikon finds it's use when you have to move more than slidecasting will permit, and can't be close enough to the target(s) to use Phlegma (if off CD) or Dyskrasia. Because doing any DPS is DPS positive compared to not doing any at all.

Your supposed Sage DPS rotation might be good against a practice dummy.
It might be good in simple fights like The Navel.
But in a lot of encounters, what you advocate Sages should do is something only ignorant or lazy Sages would do.

I can't tell if you are serious or not. It is literally the single target rotation for sage they posted. Sure, replace E. dosis and Dosis with your AoE skill for AoE pulls, use Toxicon when you need to move a lot and can't slide cast...

[Fukuro]

Lets' just put an end to this persistent Big Lie, at least regarding Sages.
Any Sage that only ever does what you say above, in all of the content -- never using Dyskrasia I/II, for example -- doesn't understand their kit or is just being lazy.

Dyskrasia I/II is DPS-positive over everything but Phlegma whenever you can hit two targets. Unlike Phlegma, Dyskrasia is spammable. Accordingly, it should be used in trash pulls, when there are two bosses close together, or when the boss summons ads, especially tankable ads that can be grouped up.

Toxikon is problematic because it's a pain to build addersting and it's not usually DPS positive, but because Dosis requires a cast time and Phlegma and Dykrasia are point-blank-range AoE's, Toxikon finds it's use when you have to move more than slidecasting will permit, and can't be close enough to the target(s) to use Phlegma (if off CD) or Dyskrasia. Because doing any DPS is DPS positive compared to not doing any at all.

Your supposed Sage DPS rotation might be good against a practice dummy.
It might be good in simple fights like The Navel.
But in a lot of encounters, what you advocate Sages should do is something only ignorant or lazy Sages would do.

So you go from:
Dosis>Phlegma>Phlegma>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Phlegma>Phlegma>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis

to

Phlegma, Phlegma, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Phlegma


Peak rotation, such complexity. Practice on a dummy as a healer oh my xD

[IDontPetLalas]

I can't tell if you are serious or not. It is literally the single target rotation for sage they posted. Sure, replace E. dosis and Dosis with your AoE skill for AoE pulls, use Toxicon when you need to move a lot and can't slide cast...

I know. It's painful to read, that is the single target rotation for sages, just as the rest of the post is for other healers - looking at the best sages at the sites that shall not be named will show well over a hundred casts of dosis, a couple of EDs, same with Plegma and toxicon for a typical boss and that isn't in a "simple boss", this is for any level of content, but it's perfectly normal if someone is new to healing they could stick more to healing at first.

Sure if you stick to running low-level dungeons and healing through trash pulls it will be different, however you may not even need a healer in some content either. I mean, that's really simple content and only people that are posting in bad faith would be so pedantic as to insist that we were insisting that this rotation applies to all content 100% of the time.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Snip

You’re missing their point: Spamming any 1 button for majority (70-90% of encounter duration) of times is not an epitome of fun & engaging gameplay.

Single target situation? 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Multi target situation? 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3, maybe sprinkle Phlegma, Assize, Star, and Lord if you happen to have them ready. SCH’s religiously slaps those ground with no variety, no wonder their AA hurts the most. /s
Incoming damage is raised and assuming have nothing but 1 GCD healing available? 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4, aka Cure II, Cure II, Cure II, Cure II, Cure II, Cure II, Cure II, Cure II.

[Laphicet]

Lets' just put an end to this persistent Big Lie, at least regarding Sages.
Any Sage that only ever does what you say above, in all of the content -- never using Dyskrasia I/II, for example -- doesn't understand their kit or is just being lazy.
Dyskrasia I/II is DPS-positive over everything but Phlegma whenever you can hit two targets. Unlike Phlegma, Dyskrasia is spammable. Accordingly, it should be used in trash pulls, when there are two bosses close together, or when the boss summons ads, especially tankable ads that can be grouped up.

You're being disingenuous. The discussion up to that point was on the single target rotation, so I listed the single target roation as an example. So let me list the AOE roation for you, since you don't seem to get it.
Pneuma> Phelgma> Phlegma> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Phlegma> Phlegma> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Pneuma> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Phlegma> Phlegma> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Pneuma> so on and so forth. You use Pneuma on CD since its a DPS gain in AOE. This is somehow even worse than the rotation before and IS STILL MOSTLY ONE BUTTON SPAM. The inclusion of Dyskrasia in AOE changes nothing in regards to making it more or less complex as it still devolves into such boring design that it'd make cookie clicker fans be dissapointed. And is also irrelevant outside of AOE phases of fights, dungeons, and very specific overworld content such as Eureka Mob Trains and specific FATEs.

Toxikon is problematic because it's a pain to build addersting and it's not usually DPS positive

It's never DPS positive in single target and takes an obscene amount of buffs that you'll never see the level of in casual content to be DPS positive in AOE. Only the first three "Free" ones are DPS positive in AOE below a certain number of targets. After that it'll basically be a loss over dyskrasia. Why the hell you are bringing this up is beyond me as toxicon is a nothingburger of a mechanic that is somehow a worse version of blood lily. But so many Sages think WOW DPS LOSS BUTTON somehow adds complexity to shit when it is no more than a noob trap outside of insane fringe cases that don't do anything to add depth. And no, the rest of this quote does nothing to address this, as you are rarely if ever required to move so much that slidecasting dosis can't address this, and dyskrasia is instant so these slidecast arguments are irrelevant there. Again, it all boils down to one-button spam and worthless mechanics otherwise that do nothing to alleviate this.

Your supposed Sage DPS rotation might be good against a practice dummy.

And is also the standard for savage, ex, trials, 24-man non-mob phases, solo content, and dungeon bosses, and is what your rotation boils down to for these situations. And besides, the AOE rotation is no better, and in fact can be considered MORE boring in a lot of these cases. Despite what you argue.

But in a lot of encounters, what you advocate Sages should do is something only ignorant or lazy Sages would do.

Quite the contrary, my dear rival. It's, as I say, the rotation you use in single target, and AOE isn't any better. It seems you don't quite have a grasp on this in spite of your claims as "expert".