Page 52 of 128 FirstFirst ... 2 42 50 51 52 53 54 62 102 ... LastLast
Results 511 to 520 of 1604

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Player
    Fukuro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    764
    Character
    Oneiron Fuchs
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbane View Post
    Lets' just put an end to this persistent Big Lie, at least regarding Sages.
    Any Sage that only ever does what you say above, in all of the content -- never using Dyskrasia I/II, for example -- doesn't understand their kit or is just being lazy.

    Dyskrasia I/II is DPS-positive over everything but Phlegma whenever you can hit two targets. Unlike Phlegma, Dyskrasia is spammable. Accordingly, it should be used in trash pulls, when there are two bosses close together, or when the boss summons ads, especially tankable ads that can be grouped up.

    Toxikon is problematic because it's a pain to build addersting and it's not usually DPS positive, but because Dosis requires a cast time and Phlegma and Dykrasia are point-blank-range AoE's, Toxikon finds it's use when you have to move more than slidecasting will permit, and can't be close enough to the target(s) to use Phlegma (if off CD) or Dyskrasia. Because doing any DPS is DPS positive compared to not doing any at all.

    Your supposed Sage DPS rotation might be good against a practice dummy.
    It might be good in simple fights like The Navel.
    But in a lot of encounters, what you advocate Sages should do is something only ignorant or lazy Sages would do.
    So you go from:
    Dosis>Phlegma>Phlegma>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>E.Dosis>Phlegma>Phlegma>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis>Dosis

    to

    Phlegma, Phlegma, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Dyskrasia I/II, Phlegma


    Peak rotation, such complexity. Practice on a dummy as a healer oh my xD
    (28)
    Last edited by Fukuro; 05-28-2022 at 10:32 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Laphicet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    218
    Character
    Laphicet Melophicet
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbane View Post
    Lets' just put an end to this persistent Big Lie, at least regarding Sages.
    Any Sage that only ever does what you say above, in all of the content -- never using Dyskrasia I/II, for example -- doesn't understand their kit or is just being lazy.
    Dyskrasia I/II is DPS-positive over everything but Phlegma whenever you can hit two targets. Unlike Phlegma, Dyskrasia is spammable. Accordingly, it should be used in trash pulls, when there are two bosses close together, or when the boss summons ads, especially tankable ads that can be grouped up.
    You're being disingenuous. The discussion up to that point was on the single target rotation, so I listed the single target roation as an example. So let me list the AOE roation for you, since you don't seem to get it.
    Pneuma> Phelgma> Phlegma> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Phlegma> Phlegma> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Pneuma> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Phlegma> Phlegma> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Dyskrasia> Pneuma> so on and so forth. You use Pneuma on CD since its a DPS gain in AOE. This is somehow even worse than the rotation before and IS STILL MOSTLY ONE BUTTON SPAM. The inclusion of Dyskrasia in AOE changes nothing in regards to making it more or less complex as it still devolves into such boring design that it'd make cookie clicker fans be dissapointed. And is also irrelevant outside of AOE phases of fights, dungeons, and very specific overworld content such as Eureka Mob Trains and specific FATEs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbane View Post
    Toxikon is problematic because it's a pain to build addersting and it's not usually DPS positive
    It's never DPS positive in single target and takes an obscene amount of buffs that you'll never see the level of in casual content to be DPS positive in AOE. Only the first three "Free" ones are DPS positive in AOE below a certain number of targets. After that it'll basically be a loss over dyskrasia. Why the hell you are bringing this up is beyond me as toxicon is a nothingburger of a mechanic that is somehow a worse version of blood lily. But so many Sages think WOW DPS LOSS BUTTON somehow adds complexity to shit when it is no more than a noob trap outside of insane fringe cases that don't do anything to add depth. And no, the rest of this quote does nothing to address this, as you are rarely if ever required to move so much that slidecasting dosis can't address this, and dyskrasia is instant so these slidecast arguments are irrelevant there. Again, it all boils down to one-button spam and worthless mechanics otherwise that do nothing to alleviate this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbane View Post
    Your supposed Sage DPS rotation might be good against a practice dummy.
    And is also the standard for savage, ex, trials, 24-man non-mob phases, solo content, and dungeon bosses, and is what your rotation boils down to for these situations. And besides, the AOE rotation is no better, and in fact can be considered MORE boring in a lot of these cases. Despite what you argue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbane View Post
    But in a lot of encounters, what you advocate Sages should do is something only ignorant or lazy Sages would do.
    Quite the contrary, my dear rival. It's, as I say, the rotation you use in single target, and AOE isn't any better. It seems you don't quite have a grasp on this in spite of your claims as "expert".
    (27)
    Last edited by Laphicet; 05-28-2022 at 04:50 AM. Reason: Char limit is a thorn in my side. And spelling correction, somehow spelled think as thing.

  3. #3
    Player
    Sebazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    3,468
    Character
    Sebazy Spiritwalker
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbane View Post
    Dyskrasia I/II is DPS-positive over everything but Phlegma whenever you can hit two targets. Unlike Phlegma, Dyskrasia is spammable. Accordingly, it should be used in trash pulls, when there are two bosses close together, or when the boss summons ads, especially tankable ads that can be grouped up.
    Aka exactly the same use case as Art of War and Gravity no? Sage isn't really any different to the other healers here with only WHM being the odd one out on AoE due to needing 3 targets for Holy to be a gain.

    Since AoEing has been bought it, it's an interesting example in how all single button spam isn't equal though. Wall to wall trash pulls deal spiky damage, healer AoEing (Mostly) requires some care with your positioning and just feels so much more engaging than standing 20 yalms away mindlessly smashing the glare button to dust.

    One interesting avenue to explore would be simply going back to the days of both trash and bosses being able to crit. Couple that with healer DPS needing a little more positional thought (Bonus potency from the side or at a specific range anyone?) could really spice things up without the need for such a drastic overhaul IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbane View Post
    Your supposed Sage DPS rotation might be good against a practice dummy.
    It might be good in simple fights like The Navel.
    But in a lot of encounters, what you advocate Sages should do is something only ignorant or lazy Sages would do.
    Eh, thing is, the vast majority of fight are simple fights like The Navel and ironically Tank damage relative to their HP pools and general durability is currently the lowest it's ever been in this game. Most dungeon bosses (With Dead Ends being a notable and enjoyable exception) are completely non threatening compared to the trash and even Extremes and Savage may well throw out big tank busters, but they are so infrequent now that you can cheese an unhealthy portion of them with holm/hallowed etc leaving enough CDs on the table to come close to 0 damaging the rest. Between said busters, the damage just isn't there anymore. The days of Twintania plummet stomping the tank every 30 seconds for the entire duration of the fight alongside constant auto attacks and death sentence are long gone. Bosses spend far too much time casting and not enough time actually stomping on the tanks.

    Couple the sporadic bursts of damage with our over the top oGCD kits and you get the situation we are in now. If any healer is an outlier it's actually WHM now as we can GCD heal with Lilies in place of a glare at no cost.

    As for adds in content outside of dungeons? They are hardly the norm, especially ones that can be stacked together. Most of the multi target bosses in Savage have caveats that either outright prevent aoeing (E6S Ifrit+Garuda) or had positioning requirements that limited AoE potential (E7S, P3S Fountains).

    Quote Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne View Post
    You’re missing their point: Spamming any 1 button for majority (70-90% of encounter duration) of times is not an epitome of fun & engaging gameplay.

    Single target situation? 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
    Multi target situation? 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3, maybe sprinkle Phlegma, Assize, Star, and Lord if you happen to have them ready. SCH’s religiously slaps those ground with no variety, no wonder their AA hurts the most. /s
    Incoming damage is raised and assuming have nothing but 1 GCD healing available? 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4, aka Cure II, Cure II, Cure II, Cure II, Cure II, Cure II, Cure II, Cure II.
    Pretty much this.
    (22)
    ~ WHM / badSCH / Snob ~ http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/871132/ ~

  4. #4
    Player
    Nethereal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    842
    Character
    Deviously Enchanted
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbane View Post
    Lets' just put an end to this persistent Big Lie, at least regarding Sages.
    Any Sage that only ever does what you say above, in all of the content -- never using Dyskrasia I/II, for example -- doesn't understand their kit or is just being lazy.

    Dyskrasia I/II is DPS-positive over everything but Phlegma whenever you can hit two targets. Unlike Phlegma, Dyskrasia is spammable. Accordingly, it should be used in trash pulls, when there are two bosses close together, or when the boss summons ads, especially tankable ads that can be grouped up.

    Toxikon is problematic because it's a pain to build addersting and it's not usually DPS positive, but because Dosis requires a cast time and Phlegma and Dykrasia are point-blank-range AoE's, Toxikon finds it's use when you have to move more than slidecasting will permit, and can't be close enough to the target(s) to use Phlegma (if off CD) or Dyskrasia. Because doing any DPS is DPS positive compared to not doing any at all.

    Your supposed Sage DPS rotation might be good against a practice dummy.
    It might be good in simple fights like The Navel.
    But in a lot of encounters, what you advocate Sages should do is something only ignorant or lazy Sages would do.
    The intellectual dishonesty is staggering.
    (31)

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone
    Just because other players play the game. Does not mean you got to be mindful, or care
    Quote Originally Posted by Someone 2
    The problem ISN'T healers rotation is busted or boring...

  5. 05-28-2022 08:05 AM
    Reason
    Not worth derailing this thread over a weirdo

  6. #6
    Player
    Irenia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    244
    Character
    Irenia Ataska
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Semirhage View Post
    janitorial
    This reminded me of someone who liked keeping things clean, and was always bummed out that janitors and the like was always looked down upon. So I won't call healing janitorial in this game. Things get messy often enough that they are actually required.

    If I were to compare it to a job, it'd be a job that could easily be replaced or made obsolete with a little work, but you have to pretend that you are busy so you keep getting paid.

    Except we're getting paid in comms, and that can't really get you much. So why pretend?
    (3)

  7. #7
    Player
    Rein_eon_Osborne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Shadowflare - Ward Miasma II, Plot Broil IV
    Posts
    3,837
    Character
    Mira Clearweaver
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbane View Post
    Snip
    You’re missing their point: Spamming any 1 button for majority (70-90% of encounter duration) of times is not an epitome of fun & engaging gameplay.

    Single target situation? 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
    Multi target situation? 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3, maybe sprinkle Phlegma, Assize, Star, and Lord if you happen to have them ready. SCH’s religiously slaps those ground with no variety, no wonder their AA hurts the most. /s
    Incoming damage is raised and assuming have nothing but 1 GCD healing available? 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4, aka Cure II, Cure II, Cure II, Cure II, Cure II, Cure II, Cure II, Cure II.
    (13)

  8. #8
    Player
    PoisonBerries's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Posts
    15
    Character
    Kume Mizuhiki
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    Agreed. I used to play Tera Online and though I didn't stick to that game in the long run because I'm a story-oriented player, healing in that game was super dynamic compared to the 1 button spam in XIV. It's not a 1:1 comparison because Tera isn't a tab-target game like XIV, but I wish XIV would take ideas or inspiration from it and other MMOs with well-designed healers. The heavily scripted encounter design in XIV does not gel well with healers' current kits. I hope they revamp the current design for the role.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/TeraOnline/...aling_in_tera/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/TeraOnline/...ow_is_healing/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/TeraOnline/...d_discussions/
    (5)

  9. #9
    Player
    Nethereal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    842
    Character
    Deviously Enchanted
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by PoisonBerries View Post
    Agreed. I used to play Tera Online and though I didn't stick to that game in the long run because I'm a story-oriented player, healing in that game was super dynamic compared to the 1 button spam in XIV. It's not a 1:1 comparison because Tera isn't a tab-target game like XIV, but I wish XIV would take ideas or inspiration from it and other MMOs with well-designed healers. The heavily scripted encounter design in XIV does not gel well with healers' current kits. I hope they revamp the current design for the role.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/TeraOnline/...aling_in_tera/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/TeraOnline/...ow_is_healing/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/TeraOnline/...d_discussions/
    So sad such a great system was ruined by poor financial decisions and gearing that killed the game.
    (10)

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone
    Just because other players play the game. Does not mean you got to be mindful, or care
    Quote Originally Posted by Someone 2
    The problem ISN'T healers rotation is busted or boring...

  10. #10
    Player
    Kolsykol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    3,024
    Character
    Aelona Chillwind
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Nethereal View Post
    So sad such a great system was ruined by poor financial decisions and gearing that killed the game.
    Unfortunate reality of most Korean MMO's.
    I really love Blade and Soul but it has the same problems.

    I truly miss the game when it was at its peak with the E-sports PvP especially, it was so fun to watch and was really successful.
    (4)

Page 52 of 128 FirstFirst ... 2 42 50 51 52 53 54 62 102 ... LastLast