Healers need an overhaul

[Nizzi]

Not anhaato, but

I said a lot of healers are unaware of even how to use said kit.

is the 1 spam really a huge issue? would you prefer more busywork button presses? why do healers need more buttons? what does their current kit not have that you believe they need more of other than button quantity?

Yes, it is boring. Yes, I would prefer more DoTs, more things to track that are actually contributing to the party, etc etc. Cookie clicker gameplay is not fun, actually. Why don't healers need more buttons? Is there a justification for why every single healer in the game has this gameplay when previously they did not? Not a single job in any other role has this little to do in all content. This game isn't just solely raids, and even if it was - it isn't acceptable. If this is so fun, I really want tanks and DPS to all play like this. "b-but thats different" No it isn't. I fully support and endorse every tank and DPS job losing all of their ridiculously bloated buttons and I really hope they continue to do it. If it's good for us, it's good for you. (Edit: I do not actually want this, it's just to the point that the people who support healers staying 1-1-1-1 are against tanks and DPS becoming that.)

amount of button presses per "rotation " =/= fun & riveting gameplay

So we are in agreement then. Tanks and DPS need to lose their insane amounts of bloat. So many tanks and DPS players are unaware of even how to use said kit, so there's no point to it. If we have fun pressing 1-1-1-1, so will they.

[Lilapop]

Not anhaato, but






Yes, it is boring. Yes, I would prefer more DoTs, more things to track that are actually contributing to the party, etc etc. Cookie clicker gameplay is not fun, actually. Why don't healers need more buttons? Is there a justification for why every single healer in the game has this gameplay when previously they did not? Not a single job in any other role has this little to do in all content. This game isn't just solely raids, and even if it was - it isn't acceptable. If this is so fun, I really want tanks and DPS to all play like this. "b-but thats different" No it isn't. I fully support and endorse every tank and DPS job losing all of their ridiculously bloated buttons and I really hope they continue to do it. If it's good for us, it's good for you.


So we are in agreement then. Tanks and DPS need to lose their insane amounts of bloat. So many tanks and DPS players are unaware of even how to use said kit, so there's no point to it. If we have fun pressing 1-1-1-1, so will they.

pretty much. bloat doesn't matter a class, any class, better or more fun. but too little buttons don't either. give healers some debuffs and buffs, less HEAL buttons. a more "true" support, so dps would be tertiary, healing primary, and other support secondary. which... can be accomplished without the big bloat. but hey, if people like 20-30 button rotations... have fun with the classes that offer that?

[Nizzi]

pretty much. bloat doesn't matter a class, any class, better or more fun. but too little buttons don't either. give healers some debuffs and buffs, less HEAL buttons. a more "true" support, so dps would be tertiary, healing primary, and other support secondary. which... can be accomplished without the big bloat. but hey, if people like 20-30 button rotations... have fun with the classes that offer that?

Nobody is asking for 20-30 button rotations on healers, we're asking for things to do that are more than the 1-1-1-1 spam. The DPS buttons we had in the past are the easiest way to accomplish that because the icons, abilities, animations, etc are all in the game. SE could restore them in 6.18 if they wanted to, not that they will. Comparatively, reworking the system to give us more to do that isn't DPS related but is support would be harder and is less realistic. I'm not against that though - if I did not want to heal I would not play a healer. I'm not here for "Green DPS", which is why I'm so frustrated by the fact that the amazing gameplay improvements I have to work on are just spamming Broil more and healing less. But I do it because I know that DPSing helps the team and it is also required, which is why it should be more engaging. There's no excuse.

[Raven2014]

Nobody is asking for 20-30 button rotations on healers, we're asking for things to do that are more than the 1-1-1-1 spam.

Map it to a different button if you don't like the 1-1-1-1. Mine is mapped to #4. Better, map the same skill to 4 different button, than you can 1-2-3-4, almost like a tank.

[anhaato]

Map it to a different button if you don't like the 1-1-1-1. Mine is mapped to #4. Better, map the same skill to 4 different button, than you can 1-2-3-4, almost like a tank.

You people are completely incapable of formulating an argument without being purposefully obtuse. I have not seen one take from any anti-healer-rotation person in here that didn't boil down to intellectual dishonesty.

[Raven2014]

You people are completely incapable of formulating an argument without being purposefully obtuse. I have not seen one take from any anti-healer-rotation person in here that didn't boil down to intellectual dishonesty.

I'm sorry I forgot to include the /s.

And after 5 pages of full on serious debate with various people for 2 whole days, here I thought I'm allowed to make an honest joke. If you want some with intellectual honesty, I recommend go back the last 5 page. Of course, whether you will recognize any opinion that not align with yours as intellectual or honest is a very different matter. I don't know how well I did on the intellectual part, but at least I can assure you about the honesty whether you gonna perceive them as such or not.

The post you just quote was a total **** post though. I just thought it was silly enough that most "honest" people would recognize it as such without me spelling that out.

the problem with healers isnt the lack of dps, but the lack of a need for there even being a healer. healers are meant to heal, its in the name, and most content is way too easy to clear without a healer. what really needs an overhaul is the content itself to give a point to healers. and the problem with that is that this is a story game before an mmo, that very thing is what stunts the game from being a much better mmo. it needs to balance classes to clear msq content with all of them, and can't focus on them individually, nurturing each class into what it can truly be

I agree, and while the notion had repeatedly shot down by the pro-DPS people, I think eventually the pro-healing side will prevail. As note, healer DPS is already at the point where it's not a surprise to see they are able to out-DPS a bad DPS, and even more common for a high-output healer to outDPS even an average tank. If the healer DPS is pushed any further than this, it'll cross the point of healer will become a DPS in anything but name.

FF14 is still branched as an MMO based on the holy trinity, and there is only so far they can skirt it until it's necessary to rebranch. The reason I bring up this point because you can easily see how new players to this game still act like traditional healers. Most sprouts I ran into during lvling roullete only heal, and that's not because they're bad. A heavier DPS focus at end game will simply create an a downward pressure on this, and beyond this the game will need to reconsider re-branching the system.

Also while they have never promised about making healer DPS more interesting and in fact, consistently removing DPS option. While at the same time, had consistently promise to make healing become more of a focus. Granted, they have not made good of those promise, but at least they are indicator of where the dev's intention are. So have faith, at least I'll hold onto mine ... for now.

The most noticeable change in this expansion is the deliberate separation of the DPS and healing channel, with SGE being the prime example. Basically for the most part, even a greedy healer can still heal while DPS without stripping on their healing responsibility. In fact, SGE is designed to encourage ... no, require the healer to heal in order to keep up their DPS - somewhat similar to the 5.0 Blood Lily, except done in much better way. So it's clear there are a new direction they're taking healer. To where, we don't know yet. But at least, encourage healer to do more healing (instead of feeling they're being punished whenever they heal) is still a step in the right direction.

[Silver-Strider]

The most noticeable change in this expansion is the deliberate separation of the DPS and healing channel, with SGE being the prime example. Basically for the most part, even a greedy healer can still heal while DPS without stripping on their healing responsibility. In fact, SGE is designed to encourage ... no, require the healer to heal in order to keep up their DPS - somewhat similar to the 5.0 Blood Lily, except done in much better way. So it's clear there are a new direction they're taking healer. To where, we don't know yet. But at least, encourage healer to do more healing (instead of feeling they're being punished whenever they heal) is still a step in the right direction.

This right here is all the proof anyone needs to show how wrong you are. SGE doesn't play any differently than any of the other healers. It's not required to Heal to keep up its DPS any more than any of the other healers are. It's in the exact same ballpark as WHM in terms of needing to use their Lillies to sustain because its MP economy is entirely locked behind Addersgal abilities which only enforces overhealing instead of smart healing and if that's the design that SE is going for, Healers are in an even worst position for it.

[IDontPetLalas]

I'm sorry I forgot to include the /s.
snip
I agree, and while the notion had repeatedly shot down by the pro-DPS people, I think eventually the pro-healing side will prevail. As note, healer DPS is already at the point where it's not a surprise to see they are able to out-DPS a bad DPS, and even more common for a high-output healer to outDPS even an average tank. If the healer DPS is pushed any further than this, it'll cross the point of healer will become a DPS in anything but name.

Also while they have never promised about making healer DPS more interesting and in fact, consistently removing DPS option. While at the same time, had consistently promise to make healing become more of a focus. Granted, they have not made good of those promise, but at least they are indicator of where the dev's intention are. So have faith, at least I'll hold onto mine ... for now.
The most noticeable change in this expansion is the deliberate separation of the DPS and healing channel, with SGE being the prime example. Basically for the most part, even a greedy healer can still heal while DPS without stripping on their healing responsibility. In fact, SGE is designed to encourage ... no, require the healer to heal in order to keep up their DPS - somewhat similar to the 5.0 Blood Lily, except done in much better way. So it's clear there are a new direction they're taking healer. To where, we don't know yet. But at least, encourage healer to do more healing (instead of feeling they're being punished whenever they heal) is still a step in the right direction.

So based upon your comment this is how an imaginary discussion would look like, or part of one would have looked like:

Hey guys, we can't affect any changes to job "a" because :
if job "b" cannot hit their buttons it makes them look bad. Goodness, can't have it seem like a more skilled player would make someone who makes no effort want to learn how to play their class.
I am concerned that unlike all of the other jobs, job "a" is unable to make decisions on when to use its skills. ! Well, it's interesting that it isn't applied to other jobs. What makes everyone who plays job "a" incapable of decision making? Can't overload them! Let's just assume that they can't!

I also find it interesting that you are now putting people into "pro-DPS" and "pro-healing" camps. Where did this even come from? The vast majority of healer mains do both.

Your statement about Sage is also very, very strange. In order heal, sage needs to DPS effectively, Not heal in order to keep up their DPS. It wouldn't even make sense to do it the other way around- what do you do when someone is at full health- where would your damage come from- could you explain that?

[Nizzi]

Map it to a different button if you don't like the 1-1-1-1. Mine is mapped to #4. Better, map the same skill to 4 different button, than you can 1-2-3-4, almost like a tank.

Alright I followed your instructions, time to queue and let the fun begin >:-D