Healers need an overhaul

[MintnHoney]

Tbh, some of you are talking like you want a complete revamp and thats actually a lot of work and testing

It's in the title of the thread, lmao.

[Droxybrobotnik]

the healers are the backbone of any challenging content. If you revamp them you need to revamp a lot more than just 4 classes. Again I say, I simply don't see the demand for it to be worth so much work and time sunk into it. Feel free to prove me, and more importantly square, wrong.

[MintnHoney]

the healers are the backbone of any challenging content.

No, the Tanks are the backbones of any challenging content, and the DPS are the ribs and meat. The Healers are just the fat, and tend to get trimmed almost immediately. Case in point: the increasing amount of encounters that are being done, even current content, where healers are proven to be unnecessary.
While we're at it, we're going into a phase where they want to make the game more single-player friendly. Healers are not built for that kind of experience, as we know from having so many people admit "you should play a DPS class for story, not a healer" as an answer for how we might fix healer gameplay issues in solo content. "Just don't play them" is not a good answer to fixing them.

[Droxybrobotnik]

No, the Tanks are the backbones of any challenging content, and the DPS are the ribs and meat. The Healers are just the fat, and tend to get trimmed almost immediately. Case in point: the increasing amount of encounters that are being done, even current content, where healers are proven to be unnecessary.

Square balances around endgame content tho, and you can't do that without healers. Replace one critical part of a machine and you got a bigger problem on your hands. I'm afraif that if Square is actually gonna do something so drastic then you need more than a thread and some thumbs up. How about solliciting practical examples with demonstrated cases of your points for instance? That might get them to at least look.

[Nizzi]

Square balances around endgame content tho, and you can't do that without healers. Replace one critical part of a machine and you got a bigger problem on your hands. I'm afraif that if Square is actually gonna do something so drastic then you need more than a thread and some thumbs up. How about solliciting practical examples with demonstrated cases of your points for instance? That might get them to at least look.

P1S and P2S have been cleared without healers, so there's currently only 3 fights in EW that can't be done without healers lol

[Droxybrobotnik]

P1S and P2S have been cleared without healers, so there's currently only 3 fights in EW that can't be done without healers lol

Can't they just increase tankbuster damage or something for that tho?

[Rilifane]

Can't they just increase tankbuster damage or something for that tho?

"Can't they just put one thing into an encounter that makes healers necessary or something so they finally shut up and feel important? Give them something to heal every 3min or something"

Do you even know how infrequent tankbusters are in savage? And how easy it is to cheese the majority of them with invuln regardless of tank comp?
And do you know bad it feels to have an arbitrary invisible "targets both healers" mechanic that make healers necessary for no other reason than to have a target marker for a single mechanic? Because that's why some fights have never been done without a healer. SE saw fit to enforce a double healer comp with a single mechanic that would wipe the whole group in most cases and the rest of the encounter a single healer, let alone TWO weren't even needed.
Yes, I'm looking at you, e9s and e11s.

Well shit, feel free to draw up an entire new system for healers then and submit it to their inbox, complete with how it would affect tanks, dps, and over all difficulty of every encounter in the game. You'll probably have a lot of fun because coming up with something that works is not easy. Well, not my problem, I'm a dps, just wanted to pitch in my 2 cents, have fun

Oh, sure.
Because the players, the paying costumers, should do all the work so they have something slightly better than shitty gameplay for an entire role.
MSQ is horrible to play on healer because you mash 111111 ad nauseum. Casual content becomes repetetive and boring extremely quickly because the outgoing damage is incredibly low and dps and tanks all have gotten plenty of mitigation and selfheal. Aglaia is a perfect example: first week you had deaths and vuln stacks all over the place. But now, a week later, you suddenly notice how incredbily infrequent damage is in these encounters. The last boss is the only boss that has regular raidwides in addition to plenty of mechanics where you can easily eat vuln stacks. But th 1st? I've gone the entire fight with only pressing Assize and my co heal doing the same and we were golden. A few Lilies for movement, not for healing, that's it. 2nd boss? Same. 3rd boss? Yup, same. Last boss? Oh, finally, I got to use a Lily for healing.
With a random healer by the way. Not some super uber skilled world first static healer team. Let that sink in.
And Ex/ Savage/ Ultimate? I have more casts on my nuke than all other oGCDs and GCDs combined. First week. In crafted gear. No, not full BiS and in a coordinated reclear.
Want to know how that would feel on RDM? Well, imagin you'd press only Jolt for the majority of time and every 30s or so you'd get to use a single proc. Wouldn't that be exciting?

You're a dps.
Your entire role was designed to have fun in all types of content, from the first low level solo duty to ultimate. With all types of parties, from the chaos murder clownfiesta to coordinated groups that steamroll everything. Count your blessings but don't assume every role has it as good as yours and look down on them for daring to voice concerns and criticism.

[MintnHoney]

Square balances around endgame content tho

They absolutely do not.
We have more statements where they talk about balancing the jobs around the lowest common denominators of player skill than they do saying anything related to needing to balance around endgame content. And if you need more proof to that front, the recent (upsetting) changes to SAM and NIN prove that, while they have to think about end-game content because it is content that they are releasing, they are most certainly not going to consider balancing the game for high-end content before they consider balancing it for the skill-floor.

Replace one critical part of a machine and you got a bigger problem on your hands. I'm afraif that if Square is actually gonna do something so drastic then you need more than a thread and some thumbs up. How about solliciting practical examples with demonstrated cases of your points for instance? That might get them to at least look.

We have videos all over the place of no-healer runs of various current/end-game encounters, and we constantly talk about them. They even talked about it during the famous "go play ultimate and suffer" live letter.
Believe me, they know. They're just arrogant enough to be able to make stupid statements like "go play ultimate" because they know they'll get away with it since the white knights get even more whitey and knighty as long as Yoshi-P will tolerate their incessant fangasming and entertain their inane questions.

Can't they just increase tankbuster damage or something for that tho?

No, they can't. Because that would increase the outgoing damage, which is something they do not want to do because it would be too much pressure on newer (less-skilled) healers. They've already gone on record and said this, too.

[IDontPetLalas]

the healers are the backbone of any challenging content. If you revamp them you need to revamp a lot more than just 4 classes. Again I say, I simply don't see the demand for it to be worth so much work and time sunk into it. Feel free to prove me, and more importantly square, wrong.

As you say, ultimately SE will either modify healer design, or it won't. I imagine it can take many things into consider, such as people who cancel and provide their feedback, or people who like the changes in PVP, or who knows, maybe they'll hire a healer designer.

One thing I certainly do hope is that people who main healers are given a say into future changes and that those people consider that, as well as those people who actually have access into the actual effort cost analysis - since none of us aside from SE really know that.