Healers need an overhaul

[Sebazy]

But not, it seems, SWTOR. Before coming here and before SWTOR went to hell for lack of investment in the stories (plural, originally, one for each of eight classes) [edit: and abysmal QA, cash shop abuse, and telling lies to the player base ... among other things], I main'd healers in statics in SWTOR, and it wasn't all that different from healing here.

If you haven't played every major MMO ever, be careful making claims about "every other MMO."

Wait what? In what way was Swtor healing comparable to FFXIV? Was this a late thing? I played pretty hardcore for maybe the first 6 months of release and then gave up when I realised that EA were making the same mistakes with this that they had not long made with the prior failure of Warhammer Online.

Really the only similarity is that both games are primarily quest based theme parks to progress and level through. But the job design is night and day different and I'm really not sure why you feel otherwise? Swtor healers were much more varied with distinct and key strengths and weaknesses between them, you have multiple key resources to manage with a big bold line separating your bread and butter healing kit and your much more valuable burst healing abilities. Because of the PvP leaning, healers also had an extra aspect of their kits by way of survivability and sustainability.

Compare that to FFXIV where you have a strong core healing kit that is plenty powerful enough for 99% of the healing you'll ever do in this game coupled with fast recovering resources, supported by a bunch of disjointed cooldowns that are seemingly unnecessary overkill until the penny drops and you start staring down the DPS rabbit hole.

Swtor has much more in common with Warhammer Online than it does FFXIV with varied flexible kits that contain much more utility and variety given the wildly different situations healers will routinely face in those games. On the opposite side of the WoW clone coin, FFXIV has gradually morphed into a story experience with enough endgame reluctantly plonked on the top of it to keep people subbed until the next MSQ release.

*edit*

Oh and secondly, where did they claim 'Every other MMO?' Expecting anyone to have played every MMO ever just to have an opinion is beyond absurd. Chill with the attacks a little =(

[MintnHoney]

If the community is so split on whether to change or keep healers the same, could they not just make the changes on one or two of the jobs.

It's not so split, though; what you're seeing in these last few pages is basically the forum's equivalent of "one guy" coming in here with the express purpose of picking fights and speaking in self-indulgent contradictions, but being unable to finish what they start and seeking more trouble to help push past their fulfilment issues.

Ignoring that, healers tend to resonate on the idea that healers are designed poorly with excessive yet redundant tools and can, and should, be updated; preferably with a finer-tuned kit for the role, which includes fleshing out the gameplay cycle for the downtime between healing (which tends to stretch more the higher the skill level of the group one plays with rises, or exaggerates when the healer plays solo) in order to have a more engaging and fun experience while also allowing for various skill levels, particularly those struggling with the skill floor, to succeed.

[Nethereal]

Correct. There's nothing seriously wrong with SGE, SCH, or WHM because I enjoy the heck out of playing them. And whether you enjoy a game or not is the only real criteria for judging the game.

Narcissistic and flawed logic all in one sentence.
"I enjoy the game, how you feel doesn't matter, I don't care."

When the occasional brave soul drops in to post that they enjoy healing and that it does not need an overhaul, that soul gets insulted and harassed until they leave.

Not true everyone who enjoys healing is treated with respect and told to enjoy it while they still can. You were afforded this courtesy at first.
But your selective reading syndrome and started the conversation off talking about a class you hadn't played in years and got promptly shut down.

People shouldn't listen to these self-anointed elites who find healing "boring," these purists who think it's wrong for a "healer" class to have to DPS (even though this game has always required that), or these narcissists who want a more complicated (and more potent? they don't say) DPS kit

The irony is palpable.

for healers: playing a "healer" class can be a blast!

That it can be, no one is saying otherwise I can see why you would think that though if you struggle understanding the concept of something functioning but still being inherently flawed.

[Silverbane]

Oh and secondly, where did they claim 'Every other MMO?' =(

What, too lazy to read the post I was responding to before attacking me for supposedly misinterpreting it?
Well here's the direct quote from it:

"Bro, this is not any other game's idea of what a healer should be either." (emphasis added)

if you don't think that's a claim about every other MMO, you have a serious reading comprehension problem.

[Semirhage]

Boss, you and I both know that'll just be White Mage because XIV devs wouldn't know how to make a proper "easy to learn, hard to master" healer if it walked up to them butt-naked, covered in baby oil, and slapped them across the face with a trout.

Healers would be right back where they were with White Mages being "goo-goo ga-ga babby's first heawer" with the other healers averting their eyes and hoping to God Yoshi-P doesn't come after them next, and I genuinely think Semirhage will travel to Japan to challenge all of SE headquarters to a bout of fisticuffs if it does happen.

It's like you know me. <3

I'm just going to stop and say that I honestly, with complete sincerity appreciate how ironic your posts are and how much you see yourself in other people.

"You're too self-centered; I like it so it shouldn't change."

"We don't want to press the same 2 buttons for 90% of the fight." - "LOL. You guys can't even agree on what to change."

"Have rational discussion. I like it so I'm right"

You're a top tier troll. You're not a name I recognized but it's clear to me now, albeit I've realized it a little late because there really are people that have stupid arguments like this online.

I immediately suspect this of basically anyone who says current healers are "fun".

Dia Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Dia Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glazzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I maintain that it's not possible for a living creature with functional limbs and a lack of brain damage to find that ^ gameplay loop entertaining.

[Nizzi]

Here's my claim and I'm sticking by it. As the official and true Warrior of Light (ask Yoshida, it literally thanks ME SPECIFICALLY in the credits, replay Endwalker if you don't believe me) I say healers are objectively boring and my opinion is the one that matters. I dislike it so I am right. Thus sayeth your Warrior of Light.

[IDontPetLalas]

Wana know something funny? Ive played SWTOR before I played FF14 (i was healer: Jedi sage) , and I still had more fun with that iteration of a healer than our current ff14 version of healers.
Yes, SWTOR sage was still more fun than ff14 current version healers, atleast Sage had more than 1 dps option. so dont even @ me with that mess XD

agreed. I mained Sage in SWTOR as well. I had three , yes THREE skill trees to pick from - a dot spec, a lightning spec as well as the healing spec - and those were available in PVE and PVP. How does someone even say that it isn't "all that different from healing here"?

[Nizzi]

Alright G'raha just let me go Broil them to death because solo duties don't require me to heal literally anything to complete the MSQ in this critically acclaimed single player MMO storyline

Then I'll do the next story duty where I fight a key character in the Endwalker story and I broil her to death

And then I'll finish the final duty in the game, the climax of the story and the end of a 10+ year old story line, I am spamming Broil and not healing anything

Award winning RPG experience

[Colt47]

Healers are problematic anyway just because of having to target something other than opponents. Think about it: If an enemy attacks a player in this game, the enemy is usually auto targeted so there's no need to think about having to move and click the target or tab to it. For healers, there is no equivalent for players. If someone is getting hit by a monster, the fastest way to swap to the player is sometimes to target the monster and then do target of target. Then you have to pick out what healing skill to use, which typically means prioritizing OGCD heals first before those with mana cost and/or cast times. That's before including the decision to use something that cuts MP costs down or allows instant casting like swift cast.

Cutting back on the total needed healing skill bloat and giving healers a similar design to tanks (only for healing) probably would help with the popularity, but I think the player targeting aspect would make them more complicated to run than a Tank under any kind of situation.

[MiaShino]

Wait what? In what way was Swtor healing comparable to FFXIV? Was this a late thing? I played pretty hardcore for maybe the first 6 months of release and then gave up when I realised that EA were making the same mistakes with this that they had not long made with the prior failure of Warhammer Online.

SWTOR was the game I just left for FF14 land. Played umm, mostly Sage/Sorcerer with friends leveling Operative and Mercenary.

Not only did we have talent trees and skill evolutions there we could select perks still. Ohhh right! Armor sets and tacticals carried bonuses most varied. DPS sections of our kits were somewhat of the lacking compared to Aion but more complex then they are here. I miss Aion.. Aion would give most FF14 anti healer dps people a stroke.

Storms Succor tactical is the one this Mia chose. Allowed our single target burst nuke skill to generate healing orbs. Skill had three charges and consumed additional force per consecutive blast however output more deeps and healing each blast. Went for regen spec armor giving regens applied chance to proc multiple times, am forgetting to remember the name.

Sorcerer had multiple defensive cool downs that were practically requirement for higher level content. Damage in Swtor was fairly consistent and rather fricken painful. If specced correctly Extrication (SWTOR Rescue) could reduce target aggro while also giving the defensive cooldown for your target. This skill functioned instantly plus allowed for vertical movement too. Twas skill most incredible especially when combined with Sorcerer telewarp. Yes.. telewarp. We could leave marker down then teleport back to our marker effectively allowing us to be in multiple places at once!

Healing skills were all GCD based but had rotation. Cure 1 equivalent comboed into Cure 2 equivalent (think 1,2,3 combo) making it instant cast. Could also combo Cure 2 > Aoe regen for instant aoe regen or aoe regen backwards into instant single target heal. Wandering mend (kinda like excog) tis skill that will bounce from target to target if they take damage. Buuuuuuut if you applied single target regen first wandering mend will bounce instantly changing from delayed on damage bounce to aoe burst heal.

Could spec the Sorcerer bubble to apply hot effect or explode when expiring to blind effected mobs. Ops had hard hitting trash with bosses summoning ads pretty consistently there (CC good!). Yup yup! Healers had CC skills and interrupts. This was one year ago. Last thing we were doing was progging Gods from the Machine with group that was umm.. how to place this, not ready for difficult content. We were nine hours into prog when I quit doing ops (Savage raids) most varied. Took my Sorcerer into all content including high end stuffs.

SWTOR healing > FF14 healing any fricken day for complexity. This was abouts one year ago so uncertain if anything changed again with 7.0. The two were nothing alike.. I still miss my Sorcerer. Bestie one misses her OP too and the ability to cloak parties past entire Flashpoints (dungeons) straight into the boss. Soooooooo fun to do!

Anyone claiming SWTOR is similar to FF14 and healers deal no damage there is misremembering at the best and being disingenuous at worst. Asked the uncle about WoW and he did one better by pulling up footage of big raids from when he played. He would not accept healers into his static who could not deal damage and outgoing damage there was miles ahead of FF14.

Unless someone is willing to tell me I am one remembering things incorrectly. Played SWTOR for almost two years and Aion for much of the longer. Some extended family have been mmo veterans for decades. Was recently talking bout muds with them when Usenet was still thing. Many apologies for wall of words and text most sloppy. I have just awoken and coffee to blood ratio too low.