Healers need an overhaul

[IDontPetLalas]

In other mmorpg (world of warcraft), being a healer truly meant almost only heal, you need to save up your mp mostly for healing, a tank buster required 3 to 4 spell to maximize the tank hp back to at least 50%, very punishing if you stop healing for several second? The tank died and a new mentality will appear, "TANK DYING IS HEALER's FAULT" because tank is so weak that they need healer to even last more than 10 sec, the tank have little self mitigation or self heal, they are useless alone but aside from the tank, any other dps or healer will die in 1 hit by the boss or mobs in dungeon or raid, you know how to know a healer is good or not? The tank will pull the first mob in dungeon/raid and if the healer cant heal the tank to survive that, ussually the party will disband, that makes a new mentality where, we should inspect everyone's equipment lvl, their achivement, etc, it took 1 hour just to make 1 raid of 10/25 player, it was fun at that time, when i was still a college student with lot of time, now? Fully working..... i have no time for that, this is my state of mentality on playing games, i become casual and ff14 is the perfect place for that, but when i was in serious mode, i can get my cerberus mount from delibrium savage which took me 5 weeks of progression

i don't understand your point- are you being nostalgic? Are you asking for a game redesign?

[currentlemon]

snip

I apologize, I should have elaborated more. I don't believe tank self-sustain can be a bad thing. On Paper, it can be good and alleviates a lot of stress for healers. Again, On Paper!

Because the damage output in the game is too low (i.e. dungeons), the tank-self sustain can be seen as too high, forcing healers to dps more, or in other words, spamming 1111111 again and again.

[rewd]

sage feels different not because of the dps but because unlike whm it has like... actual heals to manage. sure, i still fall asleep on the wheel on sage but at least i have icarus and kerachole and cardia swapping to keep your attention.


it doesnt feel the same as whm unless there is absolutely 0 healing needed (meaning it probably only feels the same in like. expert roulette or p1s)

Let's not kid ourselves and think that healers play differently. The only exception is AST which forces you to be a spastic monkey every 2m. After that mark, even AST falls again into the same 1111 vortex of boredom. Once you play one healer, you can play all of them.

What does "actual heals to manage" even mean? Every healer manages heals. Since when is Icarus a heal you manage? And Kardia swapping is pointless busywork that adds no benifts whatsover as you are encouraged to use your Addersgall as your MP economy is tied to it. If you have Addersgall available (and you will), there's not point in swapping Kardia targets if you can simply heal your target with a Druochole and get MP in the process. And Kerachole? What do you manage about it? It's on a 30s cooldown, it's available every time you need it.

If anything, WHM requires more "attention" because:

a) letting Addersgall overcap has barely any consequence, as Lucid Dreaming usage + occasional Addersgall will grant you all the MP you need; however, letting lilies overcap means potentially losing a 1240p nuke, which is a huge loss. On top of that, you always have to make sure you spent your AM before using another lily
b) WHM's sparse oGCDs kit needs more "thought" to be used efficiently because you either get strong tools on a long cooldown (Liturgy) or weak tools on a still long cooldown (just for the sake of comparison, Tetragammaton and Physis II share the same cooldown).

This "WHM is braindead [while the other healers are more difficult]" rhetoric is starting to feel very old and stale, especially considering that SGE is the topic of the discussion, as I would struggle to come up with a healer design that would feel even more braindead than SGE currently is.

[Akiudo]

snip

the reason why i believe tank self sustain being to high (and that being a tank rather than a healer problem) is that

a)if they upped the damage to a level where paladin/warrior actually needed a healer than healing gunbreaker (and even more so dark knight) would be an absolute pain and the second you got a tank that can't hold enmity for whatever reason the mobs would just mow through the rest of the group like they where made of paper mache, this would than not result in "healers having to heal more" but in "the group wiping a lot faster if the tank is bad"

b)it does not even translate all that well into savage, i.e. no tank really needs extra healing in savage most of the time, which indeed does point to damage being to low, it however also means that what makes certain tanks totally broken in dungeons does not even serve any bigger purpose when looking at harder content.

[Chopstix]

Why is it that healers are the only role that get an extremely lackluster DPS rotation yet are still required to contribute significant amounts of DPS to clear difficult content?

U know what, i was on the fence about 2 button healers being a problem due to the existence of optimisation around slidecasts and prepositioning. But the above is a pretty strong point. No it is not cool. +1

[Momo_Kozuki]

Healers in this game seem to be designed to contribute DPS-wise, but still need to pay attention on healing. So instead of balacing healing and DPS, the dev just utterly simplify the DPS aspect and focus on healing. It will be fine if one or two healers have simple rotation, but when all four healers share the same main DPS button + DoT button + AoE button + something DPS-ish, it becomes super boring, especially for casual players, which are FF14's main focus, who will barely touch any of the healing kit. Without utilizing every button of the healing kit in casual contents (cuz Dev doesn't want healer have it hard), casual players will eventually feel burn out cuz their classes have stopped growing DPS-wise.


I think the dev should divide a healer class into two part: DPS and healing, and develop both aspects equally instead of just focusing on the healing aspect. Make that the four healers have their own way of DPS instead of a reskin of each other.

[Nizzi]

Good players can do this, but i am not a good player, i won't get better. When there was not much content and story anymore for me in WoW, i tried FF14 and now i am happy to have back lot of more easy content with a lot of story. I just do normal dungeons, i leave more difficult runs as savage and ultimate for the better players.
So maybe expert, savage and ultimate runs should be more a challenge for heal as well, but this can be done without more dps buttons.

I'm sorry, but "I have no desire to get better" has to be the most selfish excuse I've ever seen for why your fellow players shouldn't be allowed to have more fun on their main jobs. If you don't want to get better, just don't press the buttons, but don't drag the entire role down with you.

[QooEr]

What does "actual heals to manage" even mean? Every healer manages heals.

you want to throw kerachole last second to mitigate damage + heal with the regen. sure, ast & sch have that too but not whm. whm has their own things too. in my experience whm chads the cohealer every time and youre left to solve the puzzle of nearly solo healing the entire fight on your own but i digress.

Since when is Icarus a heal you manage?

its a movement tool i often miss on other healers?
allows for more greedy play? its one lf the FEW non-healing things to do that are actually unique in this game.

Kardia swapping is pointless busywork that adds no benifts whatsover as you are encouraged to use your Addersgall as your MP economy is tied to it.

look. i get it. you dont prog savages week 1 or do ultimates on healers. in anything below the last 2 fights of a tier you could use all your heals interchangeably and nothing would change. indeed cardia swapping is useless when not needed. i like kardia swapping in one specific part of tea where theres dolls and the ranged is often far away cuz i can save that addersgall/intersection/benison for more relevant damage.

im not saying sage is the holy grail of healing, i myself said its really freakin boring because at the end of the day its more 11111 spam.

i just want people to be honest with themselves. the more you get into optimization the more you can appreciate the differences in gameplay, however tiny they may be. arguing semantics, pedantry and "akchually"-ing anyone who says the healers feel even slightly different brings nothing of value to the conversation.

saying sage plays diff from whm does not imply at all that they think 111 is ok or that healers dont all do 111. in fact you yourself just told me whm plays different from sage.

[Payadopa]

Well, we had nice cards. And then people here went "evErYOnE iS FisHinG".

Please give me something unbalanced (if you have to) but fun. We tried since ShB. The current system is just bad.

[rewd]

you want to throw kerachole last second to mitigate damage + heal with the regen. sure, ast & sch have that too but not whm. whm has their own things too. in my experience whm chads the cohealer every time and youre left to solve the puzzle of nearly solo healing the entire fight on your own but i digress.

Any 6.1 WHM that chads their cohealer is a bad WHM. 6.0 WHM required more management with its heals (which in itself doesn't say much) because resources were more limited.

its a movement tool i often miss on other healers?
allows for more greedy play? its one lf the FEW non-healing things to do that are actually unique in this game.

Every healer has to manage movement in its own way and you still didn't answer a) what Icarus has to do with healing and b) why SGE has actual heals to manage and other healers/WHM doesn't.

look. i get it. you dont prog savages week 1 or do ultimates on healers.

The only thing that doesn't bring anything of value to the conversation is your embarassing ad hominem. Come back when you can partecipate in a discussion with compelling and genuine arguments and without the intention of belittling your interlocutor.