Healers need an overhaul

[Shurrikhan]

my point was my point. heal. generally use everything in your kit, i'm not memeing lol

If you were using your full kit, outside of solo-healing more difficult content, said healing would in no way detract from your Malefic spam.



Given the devs' refusal to make content require a greater portion of at-offensive-cost healing (short of wasting one's free healing kit), the only way to meaningfully affect gameplay would be to affect their activities outside of healing, since that is literally all that exists for one's GCDs once playing optimally.

I certainly don't agree with that direction; I do think we should be back to having more to heal. But if this is what we're stuck with due to the devs insistence that one should be able to get by as a healer when ignoring 90% of their buttons and 90% of what they ought to be doing... then that's that.

[Liam_Harper]

healers: "waaaah muh dps"

you are a healer. heal.

if you want a dps, play... a dps...?

I've said it before, but if you only want to heal then go play a dps. Stop being a waste of a healer spot and pick a role where tunneling on one thing is optimal.

Healers are a support class. A support that only does one thing is far less useful than a support who can do two. You are a support. Heal and dps.

[Lilapop]

I've said it before, but if you only want to heal then go play a dps. Stop being a waste of a healer spot and pick a role where tunneling on one thing is optimal.

Healers are a support class. A support that only does one thing is far less useful than a support who can do two. You are a support. Heal and dps.

if i want to heal, i'm going to play a healer a prioritize keeping people alive and not let half the party die for a singular attack that should be less than the actual dps attacks

[AwesomeJr44]

if i want to heal, i'm going to play a healer a prioritize keeping people alive and not let half the party die for a singular attack that should be less than the actual dps attacks

If you're 'letting half the party die' because you did one dps spell, either you or the other party members are doing something VERY wrong. What I'd wager you're doing is overhealing. You probably don't have faith in your tanks and DPS so you heal them a lot more than you need to, thinking that you're preventing them from dying when you really aren't. Healers and tanks are both designed for the healer to be doing DPS spells often. In fact, a good healer will cast MORE damage spells than healing spells in the typical instance.

If you're healing when you don't need to, you're objectively a bad healer, and if you're choosing to do this intentionally, you're objectively a bad player. (EDIT: When I say this, I mean CONSISTENTLY doing this. Obviously even the best healers make mistakes)

[IDontPetLalas]

healers: "waaaah muh dps"

you are a healer. heal.

if you want a dps, play... a dps...? it's not that hard, this is how it used to be back in the old days, considered COMMON SENSE for healers to HEAL and not outdps the actual dps classes.

and what is the DPS excuse if the healer is out DPSing them? I'm honestly curious on how you'd explain that, because if they are being healed through unavoidable damage, and otherwise not failing mechanics, can you explain how a healer is going to out _DPS them?

Can you point to anyone asking in future being able to out-dps any DPS? No, you can't.

Can I point to "old games" where a healing class can actually be competitive with a DPS class or job, why yes I can provide examples, so can other people, and we have in other threads on these forums. So there goes your "old days" argument- not that we are in the "old days" anymore. Coming from someone who has definitely been playing since the "old days" I can change with the times and with the context of the game that I am currently playing, times change, as do player communities.

[Lilapop]

and what is the DPS excuse if the healer is out DPSing them? I'm honestly curious on how you'd explain that, because if they are being healed through unavoidable damage, and otherwise not failing mechanics, can you explain how a healer is going to out _DPS them?

Can you point to anyone asking in future being able to out-dps any DPS? No, you can't.

Can I point to "old games" where a healing class can actually be competitive with a DPS class or job, why yes I can provide examples, so can other people, and we have in other threads on these forums. So there goes your "old days" argument- not that we are in the "old days" anymore. Coming from someone who has definitely been playing since the "old days" I can change with the times and with the context of the game that I am currently playing, times change, as do player communities.

yeah, in a perfect world a healer being healed through any unavoidable damage, staying alive, optimally, almost... perfectly... playing their class shouldn't get out-dpsed by a healer. shouldn't. yet more often than not that can be the reality? it's not that rare or that unfound? as for change, all change isn't exactly good change. having healers focus on dps before healing just to be "contributing" isn't exactly positive change.

[IDontPetLalas]

yeah, in a perfect world a healer being healed through any unavoidable damage, staying alive, optimally, almost... perfectly... playing their class shouldn't get out-dpsed by a healer. shouldn't. yet more often than not that can be the reality? it's not that rare or that unfound? as for change, all change isn't exactly good change. having healers focus on dps before healing just to be "contributing" isn't exactly positive change.

I believe you mean "DPS" being out-DPSed by a healer, and aside from low-level levelling trash runs, where not all jobs have their skills- if you take 2 equally competent players and stack a BLM , a RPR or a SAM next to a SGE, or an AST for example are you seriously saying that the AST (for example ) is going to out-DPS those DPS?? Do you honestly think that it takes a "perfect" BLM to out DPS an AST because typically will fail to get healed now?

I do understand that change can be unsettling when it affects things that we like. However, it looks like you are concerned that people who play heals are incapable of making decisions, but can you explain that? I don't see why healers can't decide when to heal and when to DPS, they already make these decisions. They're already expected to contribute, just like any other job, if not they can be replaced - however that can't be harassed for that under the TOS.

[Lilapop]

I believe you mean "DPS" being out-DPSed by a healer, and aside from low-level levelling trash runs, where not all jobs have their skills- if you take 2 equally competent players and stack a BLM , a RPR or a SAM next to a SGE, or an AST for example are you seriously saying that the AST (for example ) is going to out-DPS those DPS?? Do you honestly think that it takes a "perfect" BLM to out DPS an AST because typically will fail to get healed now?

I do understand that change can be unsettling when it affects things that we like. However, it looks like you are concerned that people who play heals are incapable of making decisions, but can you explain that? I don't see why healers can't decide when to heal and when to DPS, they already make these decisions. They're already expected to contribute, just like any other job, if not they can be replaced - however that can't be harassed for that under the TOS.

well the issue is you're comparing two players of equal competence that know their class enough to be considered "good" at it. usually, there's always at least 1-2 per party (4man or 8man) that don't know their stuff. I'm saying that if you put a competent healer next to an incompetent sam/rpr/blm that the healer has out-dpsed the incompetent players before. which puts more of a "healer u Gotta focus on dps" thing before focusing on healing.

I feel like you're getting completely off track with my point. I'm not concerned with decision making ability of healer players. also can't help but notice that subtle implication that healing itself isn't contributing there. no one is saying anyone, no matter the class should be harassed, either?

[BRVV]

Is a healer standing around not doing dps, but healing if needed considered griefing or not?

Can't wait for "Just play Ultimate" to have "Just play CC" added on. Somehow that new mode DOES have uses for healers. I mean they need to heal there that's why white mage... wait why can white mage turn me into a pig? That's like... a "stun" basically. Why can something like this not be in PVE?

[pikalovr]

well tbf fight design also has alot to play here as well at least for bosses whens the last time you used esuna? exactly, outside of the once in a blue moon reminder of wait a minute i have this skill? you could just remove it just like the sleep skills outside of the one SHB role quest. imagine a boss similar to nidhogg EX where it'd be beneficial to sleep the middle mob and keep it slept until the two side minibosses were taken care of. in this scenario it would be using it's vuln up at faster intervals out the gate. so you have to keep it CCed to prevent the damage from getting to a point that tanks even kitchen sinking and swapping will die.

or bring back multiple ways to deal with each fight. like if you needed the extra time for your tanks to double weave their opener you can prepull cast aquachains (just an example) on boss to apply a casting bar slow effect to the boss. letting the tanks get an extra GCD and 2 more weaves in before the buster or if the mechanic would (actually) force melee out you can use it then to give your melees more uptime. let's even take this a step further and think about how each healer could this.

WHM would just be a quick easy GCD that just costs a lily (no feeding the blood lilly as that would incentivize it to be used on CD) (WHM is the noob/new player healer so it has the simplest solution ofc)

AST could use a seal to apply the efffect (allowing you to reroll seals in other ways incase you get screwed RNG wise as well)

SCH could spend 50 gauge to have their fairy do respective abilities (selene would apply the cast bar slow eos would apply a group wide buff seraph would of course do both and prolly apply shields as well maybe)

SGE would spend an toxicon stack to apply the debuff (this would hopefully happen next to you being able to trade addersgall for toxicon stacks so you can make up for the loss potentially)

since i can almost guarantee the melee getting more damage in, at the cost of your own damage would be higher overall. it would make it worth it in the long run. but we all know fights are now damage or nothing essentially. heaven forbid we have unique ways to tackle fights anymore besides how braindead can we make this mechanic?

also can i just sneak in rq how much i hate eukrasia and kardia and how poorly they were implemented? a 1 sec GCD to access your alternate abilities instead of something more interesting and thought provoking like having to use an addersgall or toxicon stack to access your alternate abilities. or hell just make it an oGCD so you actually have to think about weaving it. also why just like three GCD abilities? why not like 2 oGCDs as well?

kardia not even having an option to be turned into a party wide effect where each damaging ability used applies a small shield to the group for 15s for example. hell i'd get rid of pepsis for that. no offense to pepsis it's just way too niche to be relevant once you actually know the fights. but it still does have it's uses and could see even more with this kardia change so eh idk