LB's are ruining the pvp.

[Ransu]

Nothing like being 100% HP and then just dying and not knowing what killed you. Such skill, so much fun....not.

Having LB's in pvp was a mistake.

[SamiMoshantu]

I don't know how many of the LBs work (I've only really played BLM and RDM and toyed with WHM) but I think the BLM LB, while weaker than the others, is more fun to play and play around than the "damage nuke" or "one shot" LBs.
BLM LB gives you more pressure, you can freeze people faster, burn them faster, and you have basically several smaller nukes. You also have to, you know, play the game to use it right, and the enemy has counterplay of trying to focus/kill you before you can get the most use out of it, compared to a massive damage button that's over in an instant.
I think more LBs should work like that. It would also further incentivize cooperation, since one person using that kind of LB will get focused before he can do much, but if your whole team coordinates to use them around the same time, the enemy has less of a chance.

[SeiyaSoiya]

same thing happened in overwatch, ultis were so game changing that they invalidated skills like positioning, aiming, coordination, micromanagement.

[Nihility]

the problem isn't that they exist. it's that they are wildly unbalanced and the best ones are on the already best classes

[Arkdra]

the problem isn't that they exist. it's that they are wildly unbalanced and the best ones are on the already best classes

This is the silliest part yeah. All of the busted jobs have amazing kits even if you disregard limit breaks. That they all got the best lb's as well is wild.

[Anhra]

There is nothing wrong with LBs themselves, aside maybe from RPR (but i hold my judgment on that for now since i havent tested that job yet).

On the case with SAM, it is ONLY considered powerful because most Jobs cant prevent the 100% dmg trough guard from happening, and the few that can, often pay as bad of a attention as the people that get the debuff and keep fighting face-first in the first place, and then wonder why they got their teeth kicked out.

[Iyrnwaen]

Limit Breaks aren't ruining PvP. PvP would be boring as hell without Limit Breaks. Some Limit Breaks need a bit of tuning, but nothing dramatic.

[gioroggia]

There is nothing wrong with LBs themselves, aside maybe from RPR (but i hold my judgment on that for now since i havent tested that job yet).

On the case with SAM, it is ONLY considered powerful because most Jobs cant prevent the 100% dmg trough guard from happening, and the few that can, often pay as bad of a attention as the people that get the debuff and keep fighting face-first in the first place, and then wonder why they got their teeth kicked out.

I would really not downplay how powerful the LB is. It's an instant cast that deals 24k damage, not counting any buff, to the target and everyone in a 5y radius. It goes through guard. So even without the 100% damage mechanic it is already powerful, though not overwhelming.

Then, consider the 100% damage with the Kuzushi debuff. The debuff is applied whenever someone hits you and lasts for three seconds. The buff which applies the debuff lasts for 5 seconds and requires the target to hit you. Well... that is a pretty low bar. Whenever you are fighting a Samurai at close range - and you will fight it at close range since it is a melee which can dash multiple times - it can use Chiten and then right afterwards cast Zantetsuken (which is an instant cast time). Since you two are engaged in combat, you will get the debuff. Nothing to do about that. The only possible way to avoid fatal damage is to dash/jump away or apply cc and run, but that must be done between you getting the debuff and the Samurai casting the LB. That is a very, very short window. And even should you succeed, since it is a 3-second debuff, the Samurai can still dash after you and cast the LB. Moreover, as you pointed out, not every job can do something about it. And, well, if you are in a job that can, it might be on cd.

So the only reliable way to avoid damage is to not hit the samurai when you suspect he has the LB ready and is baiting you to use it. But the Samurai is not exactly a job you can ignore. It has very good damage. Granted, you will not one-shot multiple targets everytime you use it. But one-shotting one is very, very easy. And if you mess up, it is still a 24k instant cast aoe skill that goes through guard.

I really wonder what the devs were thinking when they came up with the Samurai.

[KageTokage]

I think the dumbest thing is that any kind of interaction with a SAM that has Chiten active will cause you to get the debuff, even applying DoTs or non-damaging CC.

Making the debuff only trigger on single target abilities that actually cause damage would make it much more manageable.

[silentwindfr]

I think the dumbest thing is that any kind of interaction with a SAM that has Chiten active will cause you to get the debuff, even applying DoTs or non-damaging CC.

Making the debuff only trigger on single target abilities that actually cause damage would make it much more manageable.

if you do this it will lead to the inverse, the lb being pointless... that the trouble of balance. but all in all... the solution is super simple and complicate at the same time... stun, polymorph and simply stop attack when chiten is release. since you have no Diminish Return... you can technically stun lock the sam when he drop chiten.

i can understand that it's frustrating to get os by the lb, but like said it ask a setup and when you have a sam in the enemy team the best way to deal with it... is focus the sam and drop him fast for not let him charge the lb. it what people most of the time do to me as SAM and it work perfectly... since a SAM in melee have no real tool for flee...

and personally i fear more a ninja that can chain kill people at -50% hp than a ninja since it can become invisible and attack from ranged. a sam you know he is here and you can technically always see him for focus it. it can be tricky against a ninja.
and even like this i feel the SAM lb is far to be the most op broken LB around... can we talk of the WAR or WHM lb that have multiple effect for one button press? no condition attached, simply press the button en enjoy the multiple effect for free.

Nothing like being 100% HP and then just dying and not knowing what killed you. Such skill, so much fun....not.

Having LB's in pvp was a mistake.

honestly thanks gods we have the lb, or it will be painfull as pvp experience. some job don't have the tool for be good without the lb and the lb can turn around a situation... it's the goal of a lb after all. (even if some need to be adressed either because too strong or too weak)