In regards to something involving the main cast

[MikkoAkure]

I've often wondered if we played the same game and maybe this is my answer. Even reading the same quest text we arrive at different conclusions.

The whole premise of this thread is based on OP coming to a different conclusion reading the text of the MSQ. I still don’t know how he took our reaction from that scene as “adamant and shocked”.

[sidurgu-12]

I haven't done that quest yet so it's my first time reading through the dialog. Am I missing something? The only thing I see the WoL added were flowers. They already had rites they performed and said that the WoL's addition 'elevated' it.

I've often wondered if we played the same game and maybe this is my answer. Even reading the same quest text we arrive at different conclusions.

what i got was the added aspect was openly mourning their passing whereas before it was a ritual made in elpis to return the dead back to the star quicker.

[Rulakir]

Alkaios: Vessels within which life once flowed; cheated of purpose, stilled and cold. Unto the land you now return, the fuel 'pon which new life shall burn.

There's no reason to hold a eulogy if the only purpose is to "expedite aetherial dissipation".

Maira: That was a beautiful service. I like to think it brought some joy to their departed souls, much as one feels when receiving a thoughtful gift.
Charmion: Yes, the flowers were the perfect addition. How fortunate we are to have this knowledgeable familiar in our midst!
Sokles: We must return and commit this event to parchment while it remains fresh in our minds─a potential shift in our traditions is a historical moment worth recording.

They're merely modifying an already existing tradition with the addition of flowers the WoL suggested.

The whole premise of this thread is based on OP coming to a different conclusion reading the text of the MSQ. I still don’t know how he took our reaction from that scene as “adamant and shocked”.

Interpreting tone of dialog is one thing. Claiming quest text doesn't say what it says is entirely another.

[Jandor]

Interpreting tone of dialog is one thing. Claiming quest text doesn't say what it says is entirely another.

The quest text doesn't say eulogy, funeral, or rites though.

They also end the quest by acting like it's a brand new thing they've just done, which leaves me wondering if Alkaios always says an incantation like that, or if he gussied it up a bit because of the extra effort everyone else was putting in.
The flowers are a nice touch and all, but calling them 'a historical moment worth recording' seems a bit much.

[Alleo]

So if taking care and being kind to them makes it okay…then what makes the ancients wrong for what they do? They have literal funeral rites for them. Also….then can you try and explain the colosseum where people rip animals apart for sport and entertainment? Not even just for survival? Or what about the Eden primals. They were very much alive and had emotions and we created them just to kill them.

No I also said that they are bascially magical constructs. They are NOT alive. They probably dont even have any sort of emotions and just say what the casters wanted them to say. Yet still Ysthola showed care for them. The creations the ancient in Elpis create are living beings. They are meant to breed and be released onto the earth. Yet even though they are alive, they are unmade in a blink of an eye because someone did not like their design. Heck even we, who we have souls and emotions (and seemingly are sentient enough) are sent out in fates against horrible beasts, with the risks of us dieing. The ancients of these specifics fates were more than fine with that though, since it would save them from risking their own lives.

This is the difference.

Primals are also not quite clear. We know from Titan that they are deeply influenced by the casters and we have no idea if they really can emote on their own or if its just what the casters wanted them to be. (Just like how Garuda and the others are much more different when they are summoned to help us)

The other example makes no sense to use in this topic because this is about the Main cast. The rest of the world can be a horrible place which is already quite established by everyone. So not really sure why you need to bring that up? Bascially what it ends up though is that the Ancients are not better than us in many regards (unlike the picture that Emet wanted to paint them). So just like we are able to point out any flaws that the sundered have, we should also be allowed to point out the flaws the ancient have without the need to make it a competition.

None of the characters are perfect (thankfully), but overall the Scions are just simply good people.

(And the funeral rites was something WE introduced to them. Before us they bascially just went there and returned their aether to the star. It was through all the quests with us that these side npcs started to think about their actions. We bascially can tell them about our feelings and how we see those things and the do say that their thought process has gone stale and that our ideas brought fresh wind there. Which included our tradition to give flowers to deceased beings. Using that as an example for the Ancient is thus imo wrong.)

They do. This was pointed out both in ShB side quests and in Elpis. The whole reason we have to kill the butterflies is because Emet refuses to conjure a robe for us and we can't make one ourselves. Otherwise, no butterflies would've been harmed.

I know which is why we maybe were able to point that out. (Since we knew that someone like Emet was able to create a whole city with his power) It was completely unnecessary to kill these butterflies and yet we had to do that and Hythlo bascially did not bat an eye for that. Which is the difference to us: We cant just create stuff out of thin air so we have to kill or harvest goods from animals. We are not doing it because we find it fun or because its less tedious, we simply have to do it. But at the same time the normal people are in turn also part of the hunt and can die by the same claws of the animals they tried to hunt. We are in the Circle of Life, unlike the Ancient who are above it.

I haven't done that quest yet so it's my first time reading through the dialog. Am I missing something? The only thing I see the WoL added were flowers. They already had rites they performed and said that the WoL's addition 'elevated' it.

I've often wondered if we played the same game and maybe this is my answer. Even reading the same quest text we arrive at different conclusions.

What they bascially did before we came was going to the creatures and using spells to make them "disappear" faster so that 1. the bodies are not left there to rot and 2. the aether can go back to the star faster. They bascially have a way to dispose their failed experiments in a fast and clean way. We told them about our customs thus they now might do more when a creation was killed before it could reach its design goals.

They also only do this when there is an unexpected turn of mass death.

[Lauront]

reading through the quest it reads like the wol introduced the mourning aspect to the ritual while before it was simply a way to return dead creations back to the world faster.
for example



im not calling them heartless, the quest proves otherwise, im just saying i don't think its a mourning ritual.

Nope, it reads like a physical reminder is being added, and that is exactly what that text is alluding to, and that is exactly what you suggest during the dialogue options - as Kizuya pointed out, it is an addition. Hopefully the poster who tried to correct him on this will save the source so he remembers where to find it next time.

[Luizgazen]

Don't forget that the "funeral" wasn't done for disposed creations, it was meant for promising experiments acidentally killed for no fault of their own, like in that specific case where they "mourned" a group of beings killed by a failed, over-agressive species, one that was to be put down with no fanfarre at all.
Rather than mourning the lives lost, it's more like they were bothered by their efforts spent being wasted

[kaynide]

The Elpis example isn't so strong, but your main question is one that pops up for me now and then.

I had hoped to see it due to the Shadowbringer's opening cutscene..and I felt it was addressed somewhat in the Garlemald arch and had hoped we would explore more of it: To some people in the world (maybe even ourselves), we are a mass murdering avatar of death.

I mean, sure, it's a conflict between nations and all..but our character specifically has killed over a hundred thousand individuals (including everything). Even get a Butcher's crown for it.

A huge chunk of that is people, or at least beastfolk.

I've had friends/family in the military, and while I haven't asked and most would rather not talk about it, I've yet to meet someone who'd admit to killing more than, say, 10 people in the line of duty. I can't imagine the mental state of a soldier with a kill count of a hundred, let alone a thousand.

[Alleo]

I've had friends/family in the military, and while I haven't asked and most would rather not talk about it, I've yet to meet someone who'd admit to killing more than, say, 10 people in the line of duty. I can't imagine the mental state of a soldier with a kill count of a hundred, let alone a thousand.

We do kill alot of people but I am not sure if we should take ingame achivements into account. After all the gathering I have done according to the achievements there should be no tree or rock left in the world.

We also dont know if we always kill or if some are knocked out.

But yes overall we have killed quite a few (a topic which does in a way come up in the Dark Knight quest), yet in a lot of conflicts we are also at war, where killing is sadly something that will happen.

[KizuyaKatogami]

The Elpis example isn't so strong, but your main question is one that pops up for me now and then.

I had hoped to see it due to the Shadowbringer's opening cutscene..and I felt it was addressed somewhat in the Garlemald arch and had hoped we would explore more of it: To some people in the world (maybe even ourselves), we are a mass murdering avatar of death.

I mean, sure, it's a conflict between nations and all..but our character specifically has killed over a hundred thousand individuals (including everything). Even get a Butcher's crown for it.

A huge chunk of that is people, or at least beastfolk.

I've had friends/family in the military, and while I haven't asked and most would rather not talk about it, I've yet to meet someone who'd admit to killing more than, say, 10 people in the line of duty. I can't imagine the mental state of a soldier with a kill count of a hundred, let alone a thousand.

Think another example in relation to ShB is the whole time travel aspect. ShB literally has graha saying if history is to be unwritten let it be unwritten. Meanwhile, in EW, nope not allowed to help the ancients or change history. Not allowed to create a branching timeline or anything.