In regards to something involving the main cast

[Tehmon]

I see the whole gang is here to back each other up and make fun of people whose opinions they disagree with.

[EaraGrace]

I'm so glad that, even with my dislike for Gyr Abania's aesthetics, I somehow managed to make it through the four questing zones located there back in Stormblood without having a meltdown each time an Ala Mhigan NPC asked my character to do something for them.

Yeah, this was super offensive. The NPC before that called me adorable and the one before that commented on how intelligent I was. How dare they! Where's Asahi to tell me my face vexes him? :P

You can disagree without mocking folks.

[IkaraGreydancer]

From my perspective, it's less about what you did and more the approach to how you did it.

Hythlodaeus making the robes out of butterflies is a great example, because Leatherworker's story actually makes it pretty clear that they teach a deep respect for the animals you're getting the leather from; this is both in the actual teaching from the guildmaster, and later becomes a huge tentpole of the Stormblood storyline where you're doing taxidermy. Meanwhile, Hythlodaeus' response when you ask about that is, as others said, purely pragmatic; he doesn't really pay any mind to the life he asked you to snuff out for clothes, he thinks that there's no issues whatsoever with it. And this is Hythlodaeus we're talking about, perhaps the nicest and most considerate person in the Ancient world. If even he doesn't give a damn about the lives of animals, what does that say about the overall population's outlook on the same?

For the other example the OP gave with Y'shtola's familiars, I think the importance is more in how she reacts afterwards than how she acts at the time; she clearly actually does care about the nixies and feels terrible about the one she had to put in harm's way, even if she does put up her usual unflappable facade. It's completely different to the Ancients just watching their creations die and going 'welp, that didn't work, lesson learned'. Also I think the familiars might actually be extensions of her aether in the same way carbuncles are, going by how she dismissed them, so it might be less of a 'test these with animals' and more akin to 'I'm gonna stick my hand in there'.

I think boiling down deeds into purely 'heroic character did X, villainous character did X too, these are equal' is completely dismissing context, that the heroic characters both treat those around them better and typically have a benevolent (or at least neutral) end goal in mind. I've seen the same thing from people trying to argue that the WoL is an indiscriminate murderer because they killed members of beast tribes, in which they usually completely ignore the context of ongoing conflicts, imposing primal threats, or the at-the-time impossibility of curing tempering. 'A lost life is always a lost life' is a perfectly noble blanket thing to claim, but saying that the WoL killing a violent, tempered sahagin is cold-blooded murder on the level of the Ascians sacrificing planets' worth of people is disingenuous.

This is an amazing comment. Thank you. I think alot of people miss the details when it comes to these things and that's why (imo) folks hate/dislike Hyd for example

[KizuyaKatogami]

This is an amazing comment. Thank you. I think alot of people miss the details when it comes to these things and that's why (imo) folks hate/dislike Hyd for example

I don’t think anyone missed the details. As my post shows, there’s just a plain double standard when it comes to peoples views of the WoL and co. vs the ancients.

[KizuyaKatogami]

No they didn't, they moved the bodies out of the way and sped up time so they decomposed faster. They're not happy about it by any means, in large part because the creations involved never got chance to fulfil whatever purpose they were designed for, but it didn't remotely resemble a funeral until they asked for our input.

They paid respect to them though did they not? Afaik the only thing we contributed was the flower thing. They still valued creations though and we see this in the various side quests around Elpis. Regardless my overall point is seemingly going ignored. We the WoL engage in slaughtering animals for entertainment.What the ancients do is nowhere near as bad as that lol.

Vessels within which life once flowed; cheated of purpose, stilled and cold. Unto the land you now return, the fuel 'pon which new life shall burn.
That was a beautiful service. I like to think it brought some joy to their departed souls, much as one feels when receiving a thoughtful gift.
Yes, the flowers were the perfect addition. How fortunate we are to have this knowledgeable familiar in our midst!

Note the use of the word addition here. Its an addition to their already existing funeral rites.So unless the only thing making a funeral is the flowers, youre pretty incorrect on this.

[Rulakir]

The Ancients are held to an unrealistic level of morality. I guarantee you would have an abysmal view of humanity if you only judged them based on those who work in animal testing. Hell, there are plenty of testimonials from people who worked in slaughterhouses that went vegan after their experiences there. We know for a fact everyone in Elpis wasn't heartless and that the Ancients as a whole weren't either otherwise nobody would've objected to the third sacrifice.

It's fine if you don't like the Ancients, but it's tiring when they're held up to a standard that neither the sundered or real life mankind meet. They weren't perfect and according to EW that's supposed to be a good thing.

As for Y'shtola, I don't care what kind of personal spin you want to put on it, the cognitive dissonance with her familiars vs. Elpis was shocking.

[Lauront]

The Ancients are held to an unrealistic level of morality. I guarantee you would have an abysmal view of humanity if you only judged them based on those who work in animal testing. Hell, there are plenty of testimonials from people who worked in slaughterhouses that went vegan after their experiences there. We know for a fact everyone in Elpis wasn't heartless and that the Ancients as a whole weren't either otherwise nobody would've objected to the third sacrifice.

It's fine if you don't like the Ancients, but it's tiring when they're held up to a standard that neither the sundered or real life mankind meet. They weren't perfect and according to EW that's supposed to be a good thing.

As for Y'shtola, I don't care what kind of personal spin you want to put on it, the cognitive dissonance with her familiars vs. Elpis was shocking.

It's okay when 'we' do it: the game.

[Jandor]

It's fine if you don't like the Ancients, but it's tiring when they're held up to a standard that neither the sundered or real life mankind meet. They weren't perfect and according to EW that's supposed to be a good thing.

"With great power comes great responsibility."

The Ancients are fine people for the most part, but they're also capable of inflicting far more damage than the sundered or real life mankind.

[sidurgu-12]

"With great power comes great responsibility."

The Ancients are fine people for the most part, but they're also capable of inflicting far more damage than the sundered or real life mankind.

great example- meteion. created an entire race based around a misworded question results in the planets near extinction.

as for being held to unrealistic standards, its called for when they can create genuine life on a whim and destroy it because somethings slightly off. plus, they kind of ask for that level considering they call themselves the stewards of the star striving for perfection.

besides that elpis showed theyre not really following that creed anymore. or at the least, starting to lose their way.

[MikkoAkure]

It's fine if you don't like the Ancients, but it's tiring when they're held up to a standard that neither the sundered or real life mankind meet. They weren't perfect and according to EW that's supposed to be a good thing.

As for Y'shtola, I don't care what kind of personal spin you want to put on it, the cognitive dissonance with her familiars vs. Elpis was shocking.

What cognitive dissonance? I just rewatched that cutscene and the first thing Y'shtola does when the nixies come back is walk up to the afflicted one, bend down, put her hand on it and say "Thank you little one, you did well." Then after the thing with the imps, and some exposition, she bends back down to the afflicted one and her expression softens as she says "Rest now, little ones." as she disperses their aether. That is an objective take on what actually happens in the cutscene. Which cutscene did you watch? In your mind, is everything the Scions do at all just simply vile and you're subconsciously willing to ignore all other details to support that idea?

But I guess in order for you to not see a double-standard, she needs to be on her knees weeping, lamenting the loss of her puddle people while lighting candles and saying prayers for their dearly departed aether? Does she need to go into the Void by herself to make sure it's safe, god forbid she hurt a familiar?

I also guess by that metric then, Cid is also a horrible, irredeemable human being because we find out in ARR that magitek reapers can think and he uses one up while shooting it at a tower and the Garleans are equally bad because like Y'shtola, they created life and send them into dangerous places.