Making yet another post about this because of lazy devs

[KizuyaKatogami]

I hate to break it to you, but money means nothing when it comes to bugs.

NASA has bugs in its software, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, literally every company that writes software has bugs that get presented to users.

If you made a bug report, did it have the correct format and information? There are reports in the section as accepted bugs and set to be addressed.

It really feels like you are just here to find some new way to complain. EVERY thread you make is a complaint thread.

You can believe whatever bs you want, what i’m saying is nothing but the truth. It’s a bug that makes the job virtually unplayable. You can go ahead and try it for yourself. Maybe if the devs started testing their game instead of trying to pump out low effort content, i wouldn’t be here giving criticism. Money=Expectations. The fact that this bug can be replicated by playing bard for 30 seconds shows they clearly didn’t even try the job in pvp.

An entire job is basically rendered nigh-impossible for me to play, so please dont come in here and try to proclaim im complaining for the sake of complaining.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

You can believe whatever bs you want, what i’m saying is nothing but the truth. It’s a bug that makes the job virtually unplayable. You can go ahead and try it for yourself. Maybe if the devs started testing their game instead of trying to pump out low effort content, i wouldn’t be here giving criticism. Money=Expectations. The fact that this bug can be replicated by playing bard for 30 seconds shows they clearly didn’t even try the job in pvp.

An entire job is basically rendered nigh-impossible for me to play, so please dont come in here and try to proclaim im complaining for the sake of complaining.

The problem is tone.

You come in here calling them lazy and inept. That doesn't make most people want to help you, or hope for your issue to be resolve.

The devs are NOT lazy, nor are they inept.

[KizuyaKatogami]

The problem is tone.

You come in here calling them lazy and inept. That doesn't make most people want to help you, or hope for your issue to be resolve.

The devs are NOT lazy, nor are they inept.

That’s your headcanon. This patch has shown they are without a shadow of a doubt lazy. They don’t test their own pvp mode. They don’t test their own housing system. They don’t play healers. They laugh at the horrible hrothgar hairstyles and continue to handwave their problems. 3 years and 6 hairstyles? Yeah that’s laziness sorry. That or incompetence. You’re free to have your own little worship table for them that they can do no wrong, but i’m going to continue to speak the objective truth here. If you don’t like it the ignore function exists. But don’t come in here in the thread i made trying to state i’m complaining for the sake of complaining, when i’ve brought up nothing but the truth.You talk about tone yet you come in here saying im complaining for the sake of complaining trying to denote what im saying. Take your own advice.

[Videra]

FFXIV needs a PTR.

[RitsukoSonoda]

The problem is tone.

You come in here calling them lazy and inept. That doesn't make most people want to help you, or hope for your issue to be resolve.

The devs are NOT lazy, nor are they inept.

Yeah. If they filed a bug report and worded it like their posts in this thread it likely got thrown out.

Bashing and insulting the devs because of a bug you noticed isn't a way to get something fixed. Exaggerating the impact or your inconvenience also isn't productive. I have an FC mate that mains BRD and they were the first ones that told me about what he called the RP walk bug where using a skill then immediately following it with the basic attack spam button would basically glitch you into moving at walk speed until you did 1 of a few things that could clear the glitch returning move speed to normal. They said it's a more noticeable issue in CC because the easiest way to clear it is to just summon your mount which isn't available in that pvp mode. Despite this they are still climbing ranking tiers as a BRD.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Yeah. If they filed a bug report and worded it like their posts in this thread it likely got thrown out.

Bashing and insulting the devs because of a bug you noticed isn't a way to get something fixed. Exaggerating the impact or your inconvenience also isn't productive. I have an FC mate that mains BRD and they were the first ones that told me about what he called the RP walk bug where using a skill then immediately following it with the basic attack spam button would basically glitch you into moving at walk speed until you did 1 of a few things that could clear the glitch returning move speed to normal. They said it's a more noticeable issue in CC because the easiest way to clear it is to just summon your mount which isn't available in that pvp mode. Despite this they are still climbing ranking tiers as a BRD.

Not sure how it’s an exaggeration. It literally renders you immobile in a game mode that is all about mobility. I’ve tried FL with it a bit as well and i thought a mount would fix it but most of the time getting on a mount didn’t fix the problem and neither did dying. Sorry but it’s the truth. QA exists for a reason. It’s clear they didn’t even bother testing the job, which is beyond ridiculous. They refuse to implement a ptr system because “muh spoilers”, yet they won’t test the game themselves?

[Packetdancer]

That’s your headcanon. This patch has shown they are without a shadow of a doubt lazy.

I think they could stand to change up their test process, no question. However, it is startling easy for bugs -- even ones that show up quickly in the hands of players -- to sneak through at any game company. Largely because most game QA -- indeed, a breathtaking amount of software QA in general -- ends up being done by testing "does the thing work if we do <steps expected to work>", sometimes with variant steps, rather than "does the thing break if we do things that, by all rights, should not affect the thing we're testing".

Maybe they finished and tested the PvP mode, checked it off, then made a fix to something unrelated -- say, having an issue with Wanderer's Minuet if you've got two bards in a PvE party. That's in the PvE combat! Obviously it won't affect PvP; why redo all the PvP tests for a PvE change? But, surprise, games tend to be made up of a bunch of interlocking systems that shouldn't affect each other but sometimes do. And things like that make it, as noted, very easy for bugs to slip through.

This can be addressed by changing the QA process, but I don't know of many game companies that want to put in the time (or, given deadlines and crunch, can necessarily spare the time) to do that sort of comprehensive test matrix, including retesting everything else when you change one specific thing.

(Source: I have worked as a game developer professionally, and have many friends and former co-workers who still do, thus have painful familiarity with ways that game QA can be done.)

They laugh at the horrible hrothgar hairstyles and continue to handwave their problems.

This, I think, is also why folks don't take your complaints seriously.

Plenty of people can state that the Hrothgar hair situation is a problem, and one they think should be addressed.

But you outright say the devs are laughing at the players, mocking their desires. This ascribes active malice to their actions, and regardless of whether or not you think the Hrothgar hair situation should be different, I've seen no evidence they're actually maliciously laughing at players about it.

It may be only intended as angry hyperbole, but ascribing active malice to another party just ends up making any potentially-valid complaint sound a bit paranoid at best. And it certainly isn't going to make the party in question inclined to listen to what sounds like an unhinged rant, much less try to take it seriously as a bug report.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I think they could stand to change up their test process, no question. However, it is startling easy for bugs -- even ones that show up quickly in the hands of players -- to sneak through at any game company. Largely because most game QA -- indeed, a breathtaking amount of software QA in general -- ends up being done by testing "does the thing work if we do <steps expected to work>", sometimes with variant steps, rather than "does the thing break if we do things that, by all rights, should not affect the thing we're testing".

Maybe they finished and tested the PvP mode, checked it off, then made a fix to something unrelated -- say, having an issue with Wanderer's Minuet if you've got two bards in a PvE party. That's in the PvE combat! Obviously it won't affect PvP; why redo all the PvP tests for a PvE change? But, surprise, games tend to be made up of a bunch of interlocking systems that shouldn't affect each other but sometimes do. And things like that make it, as noted, very easy for bugs to slip through.

This can be addressed by changing the QA process, but I don't know of many game companies that want to put in the time (or, given deadlines and crunch, can necessarily spare the time) to do that sort of comprehensive test matrix, including retesting everything else when you change one specific thing.

(Source: I have worked as a game developer professionally, and have many friends and former co-workers who still do, thus have painful familiarity with ways that game QA can be done.)



This, I think, is also why folks don't take your complaints seriously.

Plenty of people can state that the Hrothgar hair situation is a problem, and one they think should be addressed.

But you outright say the devs are laughing at the players, mocking their desires. This ascribes active malice to their actions, and regardless of whether or not you think the Hrothgar hair situation should be different, I've seen no evidence they're actually maliciously laughing at players about it.

It may be only intended as angry hyperbole, but ascribing active malice to another party just ends up making any potentially-valid complaint sound a bit paranoid at best. And it certainly isn't going to make the party in question inclined to listen to what sounds like an unhinged rant, much less try to take it seriously as a bug report.

They literally laughed on stream when they were showing off their hairstyles with the cut off ears, laughing and saying “just pretend they’re there.”

Again, if we're at the point where theyre consistently missing major bugs in testing, if they even are testing, then its time to make a ptr and let the players test things.

[Shibi]

They literally laughed on stream when they were showing off their hairstyles with the cut off ears, laughing and saying “just pretend they’re there.”

They said nothing of the sort (considering the stream was in Japanese), and they were looking at the niconico livechat monitors. You don't know what was being said on those at the time. But you can't presume any malice there.

[Packetdancer]

then its time to make a ptr and let the players test things.

On this one point, we actually agree. There's huge value to PTRs -- or even to having a select group of players who have access to early builds and a single test world, if doing a full PTR that works for all regions is problematic. (Like the Evocati with Star Citizen, for instance, much as I dislike that system.)

I know some people scoff and are like "oh, that's just outsourcing the testing" and I suppose you can look at it that way, but:

• Software QA in general -- and game development QA in particular -- is not well-suited to really thorough testing, given how it's usually handled.
• Live environments and development environments vary greatly in online gaming; a development server is handling a much lower load, and is thus far less likely to see errors like I/O bottlenecks or database locking race conditions. (See also: housing placards not receiving lottery data.)
• Players will generally try weird things you never imagined anyone would try. (Is it rational for someone to try hitting a wall 50 times in Elden Ring to see if it broke? Probably not really. Did someone do it anyway? Yep.)

Making a test realm that's wiped frequently (but lets you copy your real character over after a wipe, to ensure people can test endgame content and whatnot) and letting players loose on it really, definitively will help a team find bugs triggered in ways they'd never consider in order to put into a QA plan.

Mind you, even a PTR won't catch 100% of bugs; for instance, a PTR probably would also have a low load compared to a real live world, so even testing the housing lottery there might not have had the situation arise that prevented placards from receiving data, and still let that bug slip through. But even if it's not 100% of bugs, a PTR will absolutely catch more bugs than purely internal testing will, and finding any non-zero number of additional bugs -- yes, there can be huge value in that.