We are approaching a button bloat problem that can be solved

[DezereDawn]

There is no button bloat. Stop trying to make the game boring.

Ast having 2 seperate draw and play cards disagrees

button bloat doesn't mean "too many buttons" it's "Buttons that really don't need to be seperate" and there are PLENTY of those in this game that could be consolidated to make way for more interesting abilities

if they just choose to remove them/lower them and add nothing to return, sure, your argument has merit

[anhaato]

123 is not button bloat you're just lazy

[Packetdancer]

123 is not button bloat you're just lazy

It's not button bloat, per se, but the game developers demonstrably want to keep the number of actions per job to a certain maximum number -- which honestly makes sense, given that the game needs to retain controller support -- and if the option is "remove actions to make space for new ones, leaving the job even more sparse at low levels", "don't make new actions in an expansion and just upgrade existing ones via trait", or "combine some actions into single actions that change based on combat state", I know I'd prefer the last option.

And there are plenty of examples where they can. For instance, it's not really necessary for Draw and Play to be two separate buttons for AST, as has been pointed out; you cannot Play unless you've used Draw to get a card, and there is almost no scenario in which you're going to deliberately want to Draw a new card when you already have one out. (After all, even a card that's not optimal is still a DPS gain if played on someone, so why throw it away?) If they need to make space for a new action on AST in the future, combining those two into one action (that turns into Play once you have a card out, and back into Draw once you've played the card) would be an excellent place to do so. Reaper's various states already do this sort of thing with a number of attacks, as does ninja with mudras when you hit Ten-Chi-Jin.

And SGE provides an interesting example of a different consolidation approach with Eukrasia; instead of a single-target DPS spell and a single-target DoT, plus raw and shielded single-target and AoE heals, Eukrasia just switches between the two modes. Thus, you put six potential actions onto four buttons: Dosis/E. Dosis, Diagnosis/E. Diagnosis, Prognosis/E. Prognosis, and Eukrasia itself.

I'd personally prefer the base 1-2-3 DPS sequences not be combined, for a variety of reasons (though would prefer it to actions being stripped out entirely to make room for new ones); as noted above, I don't find the new combo'd Gnashing Fang chain nearly as satisfying on Gunbreaker, and it would be even more annoying with the primary DPS rotation. I'm a healer main, I already get enough "hit one button repeatedly for DPS" from that, thanks.

But most jobs still have at least some things that could be combined a'la Draw and Play, if there's a need to free up action space for new actions in the future.

[Digit4lC4m]

It seems SE would rather remove an action to free up space, than to go with the PvP solution. Glad there's third-party solution to this, except the part where they remove the skill because they think it is pointless and its existence contribute to the 'button bloat' issue.

[hagare]

MORE REMOVED SKILLS!!!!
AHAHAHAHAHA
appropriate considering the reaction to button stacking like PVP

[Shin96]

Instead of removing abilities that cost them part of their budget with animators spending a good amount of time to animate the animations, it is better to consolidate these combos. I dislike 1-2-3 on DRK, I prefered the days of 1-2-3-4-5, honestly.

[Jeeqbit]

Now as we trudge along to 7.0 the obvious next issue is going to be button bloat.

For 7.0 I think Square Enix has 2 options. Continue the approach of replacing existing attacks with new attacks that change as you hit X level.

It's because of this and pruning things at lower levels that there isn't a button bloat issue already and why there won't be one in the future either.

What if we had Eureka type options that could imbue our attacks with different elements?

Imbuing attacks with elements would be interesting but it would interfere with the fantasy of classes that aren't magic. The game would probably spoil which enemies are weak against certain elements like Eureka does and that would make it boring. If it didn't spoil which enemies were weak to them then new or casual players would just do less damage and then you might end up with a situation like DR where it causes everything to take longer.

[Azuri]

If SE was actually concerened about "button bloat" they would stop adding those completely pointless 120s CD abilities that require a proc from another 120s CD ability that only lasts 30 seconds as separate buttons. This is the new trend like charges were in ShB. "Can only be executed while under the effect of X Ready" is atrocious design. Ikishoten > Ogi Namikiri. Arcane Circle > Plentiful Harvest. Flourish > Fan Dance IV. Devilment > Starfall Dance. This. Garbage. Needs. To. Stop. Either give us a good reason to have those long CD abilites we press 4-5 times per encounter as separate buttons or stop making them separate buttons.

The second problem are complete duplicate ST/AoE abilties. We already have a solution. Make them a singular ability with fall off. They already do it for some jobs. Just apply it everywhere.

SAM is unironically the best example of how shortsighted their vision is. Ogi Namikiri has no reason to exist. They could have just made Ikishoten turn into it. Or just gave Ikishoten potency and called it a day. Or replaced Ikishoten with Ogi and made Ogi give 50 Kenki. Shoha & Shoha II and Guren & Senei eat bar space for absolutely no reason. Once again a button you will only press a few times per an entire dungeon takes a permanent slot on your bar. But which "solution" did they come up with? Remove Kaiten.

[Unease_Lemming]

If SE was actually concerened about "button bloat" they would stop adding those completely pointless 120s CD abilities that require a proc from another 120s CD ability that only lasts 30 seconds as separate buttons. This is the new trend like charges were in ShB. "Can only be executed while under the effect of X Ready" is atrocious design. Ikishoten > Ogi Namikiri. Arcane Circle > Plentiful Harvest. Flourish > Fan Dance IV. Devilment > Starfall Dance. This. Garbage. Needs. To. Stop. Either give us a good reason to have those long CD abilites we press 4-5 times per encounter as separate buttons or stop making them separate buttons.

The second problem are complete duplicate ST/AoE abilties. We already have a solution. Make them a singular ability with fall off. They already do it for some jobs. Just apply it everywhere.

SAM is unironically the best example of how shortsighted their vision is. Ogi Namikiri has no reason to exist. They could have just made Ikishoten turn into it. Or just gave Ikishoten potency and called it a day. Or replaced Ikishoten with Ogi and made Ogi give 50 Kenki. Shoha & Shoha II and Guren & Senei eat bar space for absolutely no reason. Once again a button you will only press a few times per an entire dungeon takes a permanent slot on your bar. But which "solution" did they come up with? Remove Kaiten.

This. This entire post. I have nothing to add to it. But I really want SE to see it and read it.

[LeonKeyh]

What SHOULD happen is AoE kits should go away. That would make for much better gameplay.

Either, give people a stance that makes their single target rotation cleave and hit multiple enemies, or just make all single target attacks cleave. Make it so that the single target rotation is the only rotation and get rid of the anemic, boring AoE rotations (This also allows you to play around with focus targets in packs more since damage fall-off abilities deal more damage to your target).

For healers, keep the 3 attacks and have their stance only affect heals.

SAM's button bloat would have been easily improved by:


Have Shoha upgrade to Shoha II with a high potency plus AE fall-off damage

Combine Shinten and Kyuten into 1 ability with high potency plus AE fall-off damage

Combine Guren and Senei into a single attack with high potency plus AE fall-off damage



Alternatively, make it so the AE versions can't be placed on your hotbar and the "AE stance" replaces the ST version with the AE version (if people feel like they "need" to have control over that for some reason)