We are approaching a button bloat problem that can be solved

[DezereDawn]

I don't like the combined 1-2-3 button.
Even in PvP I slot 3 of those combo buttons so I can still manually press the 1, 2 ,3 keys.

well that means both ends can have their preference, not everyone has the same amount of comfortable keybinds they can allocate to a job, so consolidating unnecessary bloat is intrinsically a good idea, as long as it doesn't come at the cost of actual gameplay like Kaiten's removal removing Kenki management entirely

[Evergrey]

well that means both ends can have their preference, not everyone has the same amount of comfortable keybinds they can allocate to a job, so consolidating unnecessary bloat is intrinsically a good idea, as long as it doesn't come at the cost of actual gameplay like Kaiten's removal removing Kenki management entirely

It's sad when characteristic skills get removed, yeah.
I still miss the dot the DRK once had.
The animation was also sweet.
So, yeah. It's not that we're approaching a button bloat for the first time.
We've had skill purges before to ease the bloat.

[Saimeren]

I don't like the combined 1-2-3 button.
Even in PvP I slot 3 of those combo buttons so I can still manually press the 1, 2 ,3 keys.

I'm perfectly fine with skills that have a second prog (Like RPR's Shroud abilities or the DRK's Salter Earth) to change into the second prog.
But leave the 1-2-3 rotations as they are.
I'd hate to press 1 single key over and over while other skills are still on cooldown.

My biggest concern with merging the basic combo into one button is the lack of choice when it comes to your attacks. Sure, you hit 1, 2, 3.

But often times the middle ability offers either a heal or MP or something.

In the case of the Paladin for example, if my team is struggling or half dead and I need to enter a survival mode, hitting 1, 2, 1, 2 over and over gives me a lot more extra MP that I can then use to heal myself. Once topped up I can go back to the standard rotation and start focusing on damage again until I need to heal and regen MP again.

Consolidating that combo into one button takes that option away entirely. Whether or not people think MP generation survival mode is dumb or cleverer is irrelevant. Simply talking away the option because you don't like pressing buttons isn't the best course of action.

[Packetdancer]

I don't like the combined 1-2-3 button.
Even in PvP I slot 3 of those combo buttons so I can still manually press the 1, 2 ,3 keys.

I mean, I'll admit that I share your general dislike of combos cycling through keys -- hitting three separate keys for the Gnashing Fang chain (with one oGCD between each) felt more satisfying to me than alternating one GCD and one oGCD on the same two keys three times -- since it basically feels like what I do as a healer main ANYWAY (hitting one button for my primary attack over and over and over and over and over). And for some jobs which have branching combo chains -- SAM and DRG in particular, but I feel like there might also be issues with PLD, NIN, etc. -- it obviously doesn't work.

But on the other hand, there are some jobs where I'm down to only one or two free spaces on a three-hotbar layout. And if the options are a choice between:

1. We get maybe one new action per expansion, otherwise just an upgrade of an existing action or two via a trait. (Which seems to be the current solution, at least when jobs don't get an overhaul.)
2. We get actions pruned entirely to make room for new ones, allowing new variety and play, but also making the jobs feel even more terrible whenever you're level-synced down. (Which has been done in the past, as you yourself acknowledge in a later post.)
3. We get existing action chains condensed down to a PvP-style combo button, thus making room for more new actions in a given expansion but also keeping existing ones. (And not further neutering the jobs at low levels.)

...I think I might actually prefer option 3. (Failing that, I pray they stick with option 1 rather than option 2.)

[QooEr]

i think the reason jobs get button bloated is because a lot of skills do one thing and one thing only. wether its just a damaging ogcd or just an aoe heal, the more they add things with a singular purpose and no internal synergy the more the jobs are gonna feel bloated if they try to give jobs new functions.


i am NOT a fan of removing a skill and adding it back a shiny "new" skill 10 levels later. it makes low level play feel awful and it doesn't add anything to the job.

instead I think traits are the way to go, and maybe merging skills together to have skills that do more than just 1 thing. for instance, the lv 78 trait for sacred soil added 0 skills but it gave a lot more depth of gameplay to scholar and it essentially made sacred soil have a new use. instead of discarding divine seal largesse and making it temperance, a trait that added mitigation + a new animation would've been so much better.

as for making room for the new, i believe merging is also a better answer than deleting. one of the very few decent things shb did for scholar was merging fey covenant with fey illumination. sure, its more restrictive to have them tied together, but its still preferable than straight up losing either.

[Jybril]

i think the reason jobs get button bloated is because a lot of skills do one thing and one thing only. wether its just a damaging ogcd or just an aoe heal, the more they add things with a singular purpose and no internal synergy the more the jobs are gonna feel bloated if they try to give jobs new functions.


i am NOT a fan of removing a skill and adding it back a shiny "new" skill 10 levels later. it makes low level play feel awful and it doesn't add anything to the job.

instead I think traits are the way to go, and maybe merging skills together to have skills that do more than just 1 thing. for instance, the lv 78 trait for sacred soil added 0 skills but it gave a lot more depth of gameplay to scholar and it essentially made sacred soil have a new use. instead of discarding divine seal largesse and making it temperance, a trait that added mitigation + a new animation would've been so much better.

as for making room for the new, i believe merging is also a better answer than deleting. one of the very few decent things shb did for scholar was merging fey covenant with fey illumination. sure, its more restrictive to have them tied together, but its still preferable than straight up losing either.

We also suffer the fact that we have a lot of skills that do the same thing.
Most of healers skill set are like multiple flavors of shields, regens and
potency ups left and right. Us healers could actually have a good portion of our
skills removed and replace them with some DPS skills and consolidate others.
I know not every healer wants to be like a "Support DPS" but that's what I'm rooting for at this point.

[Theox]

We also suffer the fact that we have a lot of skills that do the same thing.
Most of healers skill set are like multiple flavors of shields, regens and
potency ups left and right. Us healers could actually have a good portion of our
skills removed and replace them with some DPS skills and consolidate others.
I know not every healer wants to be like a "Support DPS" but that's what I'm rooting for at this point.

Since we press 1 like 80% of the time in a fight I don't see why giving us a simple dps rotation is going to be an issue.

[DezereDawn]

i think along the lines of stuff like the recent change to wanderers minuette when i think of consolidation, minus the bug causing other bards to set it off, ofc

since pitch perfect is only usable while Wanderers is active anyways, i think it's a great idea to just have it replace it, since there's no reason to ever press pitch perfect otherwise

[Lecru]

How you people have absurdly disgusting filled rows confuses me. Mines clean, takes up 2.5 and that's for a FULL ROTATION on ALL my classes. And yes. I raid.

[VictorSpoils]

How you people have absurdly disgusting filled rows confuses me. Mines clean, takes up 2.5 and that's for a FULL ROTATION on ALL my classes. And yes. I raid.

We get it! You raid!