Future Machinist Rework

[MikoRemi]

As much as they seem to be moving away from this direction, having the ability to buff certain skills would at least allow for some semblance of optimisation on top of reassemble, like an ammo system that we've seen before. End of the day, MCH has been designed into a corner where it can't excel at anything without having a reason to, whether that be a more complex rotation to increase the optimisation ceiling, or some utility to at least put it on par with its phys-ranged counterparts.

The Reload system of the past was somewhat interesting but not particularly made well, whereas I think Reassemble was at least a good use of the system once you get two charges.

However I do agree with the current state of Machinist, it is in trouble but I do believe that my rework of the job would at least let it do a bit of support but less than the other Physical Ranged, while still doing a lot more damage due to being a riskier job and being more difficult as a result. At the very least, it keeps the identity as a Physical Ranged but also will finally give it the identity of being the strongest Physical Ranged job.

[MikoRemi]

Sort of bump to the post but also an update.

I'd like to thank everyone who has reviewed the document thus far and the comments pertaining to it. I have added a few more parts pertaining to some of the feedback to give some more options on how the new Machinist can come about. I will continue to be checking in on the posts and adding things if needed to keep the job healthy, active, and fun. This is an effort from not just myself after all, but the community who reviewed the document beforehand, and those who continue to review it today.

Thank you.

[Jirah]

Alright done reading, love hearing these things btw, and I can conclude that I don’t like these changes

The only real difference in this rework is removing its 1-2-3 for a cast bar, wildfire being automatic, and stacks for heat, and basically a carbon copy of Xenoglossy with Spite. Also I really detest more fat skills like Grenado shot, as if MCH has enough fat for aoe as it is. Battery and heat will still be boring gauges and MCH will still have a mouthful of GCD/OGCD that needs abit more nuance.

Don’t get me wrong, wildfire change is better and the stacks will cure the ping issue but I kinda expected abit more? Especially with more creativity with Spite. Also we don’t need a Aoe turret could just have Queen do splash damage and perhaps have more to do besides “Dot”. Would like to hear the concept to be expanded a lot more beyond the in-intrepid design of SHB/EW

[Jirah]

That's a well thought out document. I've been gathering my thoughts reading various threads and I'd like to ask what you think about scaling potencies based on how close you are to the target? Without needing to be in melee range. Say something like 10-20y.

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Positionals suck due to the game having no real blatant indication of which side is which I like say “Xenoblade X” where you can tell a side from a back and front, ranged attacks will suffer the same especially for MCH with no indications. A reverse melee range or “Trajectory” is somthing I’ve thought about many times when rewriting reworks for MCH in SB/SHB and with the current system I concluded that it can’t work without the entire kit bending over for it. As I’ve said before MCH is in a corner and only a rework in somthing can give it leg room, trajectory isn’t one of them

[Kisshu]

A few things I would like to see changed for MCH making it less ping-punishing and a few other changes.

Hypercharge: Now grants 5 bullets instead of a timer.

Heat Blast: Now uses the bullets from Hypercharge. Instead of reducing cooldowns, it instead gives Aether Charged Ammunition at a rate of 1:1.
The Aether Charged Ammunition can be used for a free Gauss Round/Ricochet.
This change would mean you no longer have to weave inbetween each heat blast, but can still do it if you want to.

Wildfire: Duration 15 seconds, explodes after being hit 6 times, now does AoE damage.
Gives you more time to fully proc Wildfire and also makes it usefull during mob pulls in dungeons.

Crowned Collider: Gone. When the Automaton Queen uses Pile Bunker it grants the MCH the Targer Locked status. This lets the MCH use the Marksman's Spite attack (similar to the PVP LB).
As it is now, Crowned is the MCH's strongest attack bar Wilfire. But it's something that is done very passively by the mech. This change would instead let the MCH get the visual effect of the attack.

Flamethrower: Share cooldown with Hot Shot, grants battery, same AoE as Bioblaster and applies a DoT. Hitting a target affected by Bioblaster causes an extra explosion to trigger for additional damage.

[MikoRemi]

A few things I would like to see changed for MCH making it less ping-punishing and a few other changes.

Hypercharge: Now grants 5 bullets instead of a timer.

Heat Blast: Now uses the bullets from Hypercharge. Instead of reducing cooldowns, it instead gives Aether Charged Ammunition at a rate of 1:1.
The Aether Charged Ammunition can be used for a free Gauss Round/Ricochet.
This change would mean you no longer have to weave inbetween each heat blast, but can still do it if you want to.

Wildfire: Duration 15 seconds, explodes after being hit 6 times, now does AoE damage.
Gives you more time to fully proc Wildfire and also makes it usefull during mob pulls in dungeons.

Crowned Collider: Gone. When the Automaton Queen uses Pile Bunker it grants the MCH the Targer Locked status. This lets the MCH use the Marksman's Spite attack (similar to the PVP LB).
As it is now, Crowned is the MCH's strongest attack bar Wilfire. But it's something that is done very passively by the mech. This change would instead let the MCH get the visual effect of the attack.

Flamethrower: Share cooldown with Hot Shot, grants battery, same AoE as Bioblaster and applies a DoT. Hitting a target affected by Bioblaster causes an extra explosion to trigger for additional damage.

Definitely agree, no class should ever be punished for ping, only for bad play.

I had 4 charges on a 20 second timer or so for consistensy with other classes like Warrior's new Inner Release or Reaper's Enshroud gauge, so somewhat on the right idea.

Hmm, I could see something like that if it could stack for some time actually...like getting up to 4 free stacks maximum to unload at will on top of the cooldown, although I do at least like having 2 charges minimum to avoid overcapping.

My document also did that but instead of 6 times, I had it more like 3 or 4 so you don't have to use Heat Blast to trigger it within a reasonable time, and so that Blast Charge was still viable for use. Having AoE damage though is something we should already have so it's a little curious how we haven't had it yet...

I could see the Collider change, but I keep it to requiring 100 Battery solely to avoid having to spend at 50 or else it's nonoptimal, the 100 Battery for 1 charge makes it easy to use twice in a row at full power(2 max charges to unload with Marksman's after all) makes for some freedom. That's really it though.

I don't really want it to share with Hot Shot but to be a thing of its own personally. It is an interesting bit of interaction but the buff method or making it a stacking dot makes it more viable for single target and groups.

These ideas aren't ones I'm 100% opposed to though, if they did any of these that would already be a step in the right direction.

[Remarus]

A few things I would like to see changed for MCH making it less ping-punishing and a few other changes.

[...]

Crowned Collider: Gone. When the Automaton Queen uses Pile Bunker it grants the MCH the Targer Locked status. This lets the MCH use the Marksman's Spite attack (similar to the PVP LB).
As it is now, Crowned is the MCH's strongest attack bar Wilfire. But it's something that is done very passively by the mech. This change would instead let the MCH get the visual effect of the attack.

Not gonna touch on all of these, though I love the idea of WF having a longer duration and auto-proccing after 6 GCDs. I don't know that I'd enjoy ammo back in any form, I kinda like the way Heat Blast works compared to Stormblood MCH.

That all being said, I absolutely adore this idea for a Collider replacement. The AI for Queen is too buggy to be reliable and tying so much of our potency to it is poor design. Being able to control our burst like this would do wonders for playability, and I also agree with MikoRemi that we would need to force its use to 100 charge to make it balanceable.

Ideally, to fix Queen itself, I'd love it if pressing the summon button put a Debuff on the target called Magitech Focus or something and that designated what target our bot was attacking. We could then re-press the summon button to swap targets if needed, but otherwise it would keep its attacks on the Focused target.

[Kisshu]

I don't know that I'd enjoy ammo back in any form, I kinda like the way Heat Blast works compared to Stormblood MCH.

The idea of the ammo system would be to make it a stack system similar to what DRK got recently instead of a duration. It would make it a bit more forgiving in some situations such as boss 4 in the new 24-raid where it becomes untargetable for a brief second when doing the dash attack.
It would function just like the current version, 5 shots that only works with Heat Blast.

[MikoRemi]

Not gonna touch on all of these, though I love the idea of WF having a longer duration and auto-proccing after 6 GCDs. I don't know that I'd enjoy ammo back in any form, I kinda like the way Heat Blast works compared to Stormblood MCH.

That all being said, I absolutely adore this idea for a Collider replacement. The AI for Queen is too buggy to be reliable and tying so much of our potency to it is poor design. Being able to control our burst like this would do wonders for playability, and I also agree with MikoRemi that we would need to force its use to 100 charge to make it balanceable.

Ideally, to fix Queen itself, I'd love it if pressing the summon button put a Debuff on the target called Magitech Focus or something and that designated what target our bot was attacking. We could then re-press the summon button to swap targets if needed, but otherwise it would keep its attacks on the Focused target.

Honestly I just wish they made the AI only target whatever you are attacking and swap accordingly. Although swapping would be somewhat rarer with the introduction of Bishop/King, but regardless I’m still surprised the AI doesn’t already just work like that. Ammo would be a bit much, I would like Reload to come back just for cosmetic animations though. I remember when Revolver of the Wanderer was more special…

[Colt47]

I'm fine with machinist as is. Mostly just want to have charges instead of a timer for the overcharge for all the same reasons dark knight hated blood weapon before fix.