Future Machinist Rework

[Roxus]

I had originally thought of this whenever I was thinking of the "positionals" version of ranged physical to try to add "more" to them. The problem with something like this is that there's no easy visual marker showing how close/far you are from the enemy. That would absolutely need to be added if they were to do something like this.

Oh I agree that there must be an indicator for it, I actually forgot to mention that, apologies. I think it would be a great way to solve the issue of them hiding behind the mobility argument and at the same time add some depth to the job(s). I mean as it is now my static ranged just circles the arena as a joke for years now.

[ShimAoki]

Honestly I don't think a max ranged potency gain would work too well, most end game content is designed around stacking as a party on the bosses butt until mechanics require otherwise. Most fights the group moves as a collective. Something like this would warrant an unhealthy gameplay style that would punish healers and I doubt it would do enough potency to warrant the "healers adjust" blm mentality. I think that walking casts are a step in a more progressive direction but adding max range potencys would lead to the old "This fight is unfriendly for mch" which has plagued melees and other roles in the past, thus leading to some tiers being deemed role friendly or not. It's not a bad idea, but I don't think it'd work well in a pve enviroment especially on a savage and ultimate level, it could also lead to more casual players that are healers feeling stressed about dealing with these players. If a system like this were to exist however, I do think it would be better suited to a placeable turret, where positioning it far out but not out of range, could be rewarding.

[MikoRemi]

Having this be strictly used for the turrets would be best. Having the range result in more or less damage would take away from the freedom of Physical Ranged so it would certainly be a tricky idea to implement let alone well. Although once the upgrades take place, that’s when the idea would go out the window as well.

I believe this idea was taken from PVP Bard(correct me if I’m wrong), this idea is definitely more of a PVP only kind of fight where some fights like say P2S would force you to remain in very close distance to the boss much of the fight, but then other fights will take you further away at some points. Having the system even with indicators added would certainly be a difficult thing to keep around.

[Roxus]

Honestly I don't think a max ranged potency gain would work too well, most end game content is designed around stacking as a party on the bosses butt until mechanics require otherwise. Most fights the group moves as a collective. Something like this would warrant an unhealthy gameplay style that would punish healers and I doubt it would do enough potency to warrant the "healers adjust" blm mentality. I think that walking casts are a step in a more progressive direction but adding max range potencys would lead to the old "This fight is unfriendly for mch" which has plagued melees and other roles in the past, thus leading to some tiers being deemed role friendly or not. It's not a bad idea, but I don't think it'd work well in a pve enviroment especially on a savage and ultimate level, it could also lead to more casual players that are healers feeling stressed about dealing with these players. If a system like this were to exist however, I do think it would be better suited to a placeable turret, where positioning it far out but not out of range, could be rewarding.

It's the opposite, you get closer for the potency, introducing risk of killing your melee. Having the potency max out at max range wouldn't solve the problem.
Edit: Forgot to add, you can have a role skill added to remove the distance requirement or have it tacked onto Hypercharge. Doesn't have to be the whole kit either affected by distance. I'm basically imagining a shotgun or the potency of the magic bullets to diminish the further you go. I'm not going to say "this is the right solution", but I've thought this would at least be worth testing.

[Serenaya]

As much as they seem to be moving away from this direction, having the ability to buff certain skills would at least allow for some semblance of optimisation on top of reassemble, like an ammo system that we've seen before. End of the day, MCH has been designed into a corner where it can't excel at anything without having a reason to, whether that be a more complex rotation to increase the optimisation ceiling, or some utility to at least put it on par with its phys-ranged counterparts.

[MikoRemi]

As much as they seem to be moving away from this direction, having the ability to buff certain skills would at least allow for some semblance of optimisation on top of reassemble, like an ammo system that we've seen before. End of the day, MCH has been designed into a corner where it can't excel at anything without having a reason to, whether that be a more complex rotation to increase the optimisation ceiling, or some utility to at least put it on par with its phys-ranged counterparts.

The Reload system of the past was somewhat interesting but not particularly made well, whereas I think Reassemble was at least a good use of the system once you get two charges.

However I do agree with the current state of Machinist, it is in trouble but I do believe that my rework of the job would at least let it do a bit of support but less than the other Physical Ranged, while still doing a lot more damage due to being a riskier job and being more difficult as a result. At the very least, it keeps the identity as a Physical Ranged but also will finally give it the identity of being the strongest Physical Ranged job.

[MikoRemi]

Sort of bump to the post but also an update.

I'd like to thank everyone who has reviewed the document thus far and the comments pertaining to it. I have added a few more parts pertaining to some of the feedback to give some more options on how the new Machinist can come about. I will continue to be checking in on the posts and adding things if needed to keep the job healthy, active, and fun. This is an effort from not just myself after all, but the community who reviewed the document beforehand, and those who continue to review it today.

Thank you.

[Jirah]

Alright done reading, love hearing these things btw, and I can conclude that I don’t like these changes

The only real difference in this rework is removing its 1-2-3 for a cast bar, wildfire being automatic, and stacks for heat, and basically a carbon copy of Xenoglossy with Spite. Also I really detest more fat skills like Grenado shot, as if MCH has enough fat for aoe as it is. Battery and heat will still be boring gauges and MCH will still have a mouthful of GCD/OGCD that needs abit more nuance.

Don’t get me wrong, wildfire change is better and the stacks will cure the ping issue but I kinda expected abit more? Especially with more creativity with Spite. Also we don’t need a Aoe turret could just have Queen do splash damage and perhaps have more to do besides “Dot”. Would like to hear the concept to be expanded a lot more beyond the in-intrepid design of SHB/EW

[Jirah]

That's a well thought out document. I've been gathering my thoughts reading various threads and I'd like to ask what you think about scaling potencies based on how close you are to the target? Without needing to be in melee range. Say something like 10-20y.

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Positionals suck due to the game having no real blatant indication of which side is which I like say “Xenoblade X” where you can tell a side from a back and front, ranged attacks will suffer the same especially for MCH with no indications. A reverse melee range or “Trajectory” is somthing I’ve thought about many times when rewriting reworks for MCH in SB/SHB and with the current system I concluded that it can’t work without the entire kit bending over for it. As I’ve said before MCH is in a corner and only a rework in somthing can give it leg room, trajectory isn’t one of them

[Shurrikhan]

bringing back the Bishop would at least not just bring back the turret we had lost previously, but also to be more deliberate in your choice.

I'm all for more turret choice, but a shallow AoE | ST distinction as per the old Rook and Bishop... is not that.