Worst housing system in the world

[Dionysius]

You don't even need to spend much time on this forum to realize that there is a divide growing between the house-owning vs houseless population, and its really starting to cause some serious contention in our communities.

I've been in the forum since HW, since people asking for instanced housing, and they came up with Apartment. Oh why not just give everyone large houses?
WELL... Obviously easier said than done. Sqex doesn't have servers like AGS/Google, there are limitations, etc. Housing for everyone will have complication to other stuff like reduced item limit back from 400 to 100 per house.
We already seen what happened to Male Hrothgar's ears when they got too busy with MViera and FHroth. Old elezen running animation never got revamp, and etc.

It' about being realistic, they can't produce "Housing for everyone" out of thin air, there must be cost tied behind it. Before you said why sqex small indie dev, being so stingy with workforce and money ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ maybe?.
I'd never want to find out what we'll lose if we ever get "Housing for everyone" lol.

[Oizen]

I've been in the forum since HW, since people asking for instanced housing, and they came up with Apartment. Oh why not just give everyone large houses?
WELL... Obviously easier said than done. Sqex doesn't have servers like AGS/Google, there are limitations, etc. Housing for everyone will have complication to other stuff like reduced item limit back from 400 to 100 per house.
We already seen what happened to Male Hrothgar's ears when they got too busy with MViera and FHroth. Old elezen running animation never got revamp, and etc.

It' about being realistic, they can't produce "Housing for everyone" out of thin air, there must be cost tied behind it. Before you said why sqex small indie dev, being so stingy with workforce and money ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ maybe?.
I'd never want to find out what we'll lose if we ever get "Housing for everyone" lol.

I don't think them being lazy when it comes to adding ears to exiisting hair is the exact same thing as the dumpster fire that is the housing system.
And it IS them being Lazy with those hairs, there really isn't any excuse for that.

The problem with the housing system is the core of it is broken, and they keep trying to patch it up and bandaid fix it rather than replace it with a permanent solution, and every time they bandaid fix it or expand upon it the problem only gets larger.

[Corvus_V]

ah yes, the armchair accountant
"they cant do it, it's too expensive. the awful way it is is a necessary evil"
"if square enix did it, they wouldn't break even on their expenses"
im not dignifying this with more than theyre probably making 600 million a month on entry level subs alone


even if they tell you it'd be hard they're probably lying. there's definitely a shitty bureaucratic process behind making a financial move like that no one would expect to be made to happen overnight, but they've had years and years to tell us that they're working on it. Instead, we have "island sanctuary" which we "cant get our hopes up for" (are these not instances?) and "we want to foster FFXIV communities in the wards." there's a way larger majority of people who don't want to put up with this. again, a house you enter through a portal doesnt have to be open 24/7. they wont be in use constantly; not everyone would purchase a house and not all of them will be of a larger size; because not everyone in this game has 20m-50m+ even if it is expendable for people who have been playing a while.

[Sythex]

"we want to foster FFXIV communities in the wards." there's a way larger majority of people who don't want to put up with this. again, a house you enter through a portal doesnt have to be open 24/7. they wont be in use constantly; not everyone would purchase a house and not all of them will be of a larger size; because not everyone in this game has 20m-50m+ even if it is expendable for people who have been playing a while.

There is the common argument that Wards are more often than not ghost towns, I want to perpetuate that by adding that the only people I see at my FC's house are FC members and maybe a couple of their friends, and half the time, I'm the only one there. None of the other houses that are owned are being occupied ever.

Furthermore, as you've said, they're not in use constantly, so by that logic, wouldn't it be less strain on the server to have those unused assets on standby until they are in use? Now I'm not claiming to be highly tech savvy, nor do I understand how servers work, but I would think it would be less burden to have those unused assets turned off unless they are in use. I welcome anyone to educate me and explain why this is not feasible.

[Illmaeran]

Furthermore, as you've said, they're not in use constantly, so by that logic, wouldn't it be less strain on the server to have those unused assets on standby until they are in use? Now I'm not claiming to be highly tech savvy, nor do I understand how servers work, but I would think it would be less burden to have those unused assets turned off unless they are in use. I welcome anyone to educate me and explain why this is not feasible.

I don't know the answer, but will toss an idea into the ring and hope someone with actual experience in these things gives an answer.

How long would it take to re-load an entire ward if someone were to enter the instance after it had been "shut down". My guess is that it would be a substantial amount of time and possibly even computing power that's more efficient to just keep running in the same way it's more efficient to keep AC running at a reduced level during hot days than it is to shut it off and have to bring the temperature down 20-30 degrees every time you get home. Given how many players could potentially be concurrently using a ward (I did say potentially), maybe its more resource efficient to keep it going 24/7 than it would be to have to reload it tens or hundreds of times per day?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[BaroLlyonesse]

ah yes, the armchair accountant
"they cant do it, it's too expensive. the awful way it is is a necessary evil"
"if square enix did it, they wouldn't break even on their expenses"
im not dignifying this with more than theyre probably making 600 million a month on entry level subs alone.

Not for nothing, but aren't you just doing the exact same thing? You're just presuming that they have the money, so why should anyone dignify your thoughts, either? We don't know how expenses are working for them, so to presume either way is folly. What isn't folly is to listen to the developers. They've been very open with their mistakes and limitations, including definitely not-lying about the parts shortage; it can be proven.

even if they tell you it'd be hard they're probably lying.

Why? What's the logic behind them lying here? Isn't a bureaucratic process still 'hard'? Case in point: I work for a corporation, and I explained five years ago that a project I was working on would save money. Four years later, they implemented, and immediately saved several hundred thousand a month. The comments from up top: 'Why didn't we do this earlier?' Well, because you blocked me, and it was hard to get it through.

Look at this from a different point of view: If they could do everything people in this thread ask for, instanced housing, free housing, easier furniture, all of that... why wouldn't they, regardless of work required? It would reduce their overall stress, remove negative comments and therefore increase new populations and higher retention rates, and generally gain positive press. So there have to be actual reasons why it's not happening.

You sound really burned by all this, which I understand, but I'm not certain your logic is any better than anyone else's.

[BaroLlyonesse]

As someone who works in a corp with a lot of NPS junk in it, I can say with certainty that the vast majority of people that have any comments at all are the people that are displeased with their personal experience. The people who are happy or indifferent almost never participate in surveys or petitions or leave comments, and when they do, all the detractors gang up on them until they leave. I don't think anyone here should say anything about 'the majority of the players say', unless you can prove actual numbers.

Your point will be just as strong leaving those comments out. Just stick with personal experience, or give your honest thoughts. It's just being a good interlocutor.

[Fleap]

I've been in the forum since HW, since people asking for instanced housing, and they came up with Apartment. Snip

Do you know how much I hate people telling the player base things like "You got what you asked for?"

Square Enix and Yoshida might be giving us solutions for our complaints. They might *fix* the surface issues for things we ask for or even be suggested (like the lotto). But when the system that they decide to make is painfully BAD, not because we asked for it but because they gave us a BAD solution to our problems, then its not the player base's fault! The player base has ALL the right in the world if they're handed a plate of dog crap instead of a solution that actually makes the dev team look like they TRIED to understand the problem.

Squenix is not a small indie dev. Not at all. The phrase is sarcastic. I pay my monthly bill with money that doesn't come out of thin air, as does everyone else who plays this game (except for free trial players). I pay $60 with money that doesn't come out of thin air for every expansion. I buy items from their cash shop -- which by the way, was supposed to be money that went to support housing, apartments specifically but that could be changed -- with money that does not come out of thin air.

I'm sick of people pretending servers just flat-out cannot be found or acquired at all, its not true. Is it harder? Yes. Will you pay a bit more? Yes. Will you maybe need to rent it, or buy a used one that might require slight repair? Yes. Several companies are more than happy to cut deals with companies to get them infrastructure right now. But even if they don't?

We would not be at this point if they had solved the problem properly in the first place instead of giving us all these bad solutions that people have RIGHTFULLY complained about when they happened!

[Jojoya]

Why not? Not everyone can do Ultimate with the limited time they have to prog, same as Housing not everyone can get one. Does that makes Ultimate just as bad?

You're talking about 2 very different things.

Anyone who's met the requirement to do Ultimate can do it. There's no hard limit on the number of Ultimate instances that can be created.

A lot of players that meet the requirement to purchase a house cannot purchase one because there is a hard limit on how many houses are available.

with ultimates theres always a way to figure out mechanics and clear the fight after 99 attempts with a housing lottery even after 9 trillion attempts theres No gurantee you will ever win. Think again. its a Lottery not a set mechanic with a solution.

It's not the lottery that's the problem. It's the lack of supply.

I'm not sure about your server, but at least here I can find new plots opening up quite often every week back when auto-demolition still up and running.
Most people that I'm playing with managed to get one with patience. That's where my argument came from.

I think they should keep the auto-demolition running more than not though.

You're on a low pop JP world that has less than half the population of a typical NA world. Of course you have fewer problems finding a house - there are fewer players competing for them.

Patience is not enough here. The demand is far, far higher than the tiny number of houses that open up through demolition.

I've been in the forum since HW, since people asking for instanced housing, and they came up with Apartment. Oh why not just give everyone large houses?

Or SE could have made apartments the same size as large interiors.

Other games with instanced housing tend to give their players choices instead of cramming everyone into a one-size-fits-all trinket box. It shouldn't be a surprise that players are unhappy with apartments when we know more is possible.

I don't know the answer, but will toss an idea into the ring and hope someone with actual experience in these things gives an answer.

How long would it take to re-load an entire ward if someone were to enter the instance after it had been "shut down". My guess is that it would be a substantial amount of time and possibly even computing power that's more efficient to just keep running in the same way it's more efficient to keep AC running at a reduced level during hot days than it is to shut it off and have to bring the temperature down 20-30 degrees every time you get home. Given how many players could potentially be concurrently using a ward (I did say potentially), maybe its more resource efficient to keep it going 24/7 than it would be to have to reload it tens or hundreds of times per day?

Inquiring minds want to know!

MMOs would never have moved to instancing for content if that was true.

Why? What's the logic behind them lying here? Isn't a bureaucratic process still 'hard'? Case in point: I work for a corporation, and I explained five years ago that a project I was working on would save money. Four years later, they implemented, and immediately saved several hundred thousand a month. The comments from up top: 'Why didn't we do this earlier?' Well, because you blocked me, and it was hard to get it through.

Look at this from a different point of view: If they could do everything people in this thread ask for, instanced housing, free housing, easier furniture, all of that... why wouldn't they, regardless of work required? It would reduce their overall stress, remove negative comments and therefore increase new populations and higher retention rates, and generally gain positive press. So there have to be actual reasons why it's not happening.

As you point out in your own real life example, just because there is a reason does not mean it's a reason that makes good sense.

The reason could be as simple as upper management is only looking at the upfront costs to implement and not the long term benefits. That's a common mistake in business. Or it could be they are stubbornly loyal to their vision of what they want housing to be without realizing that is it not working out that way for the majority of players in practice.

It comes up occasionally in the forums but it would be nice to see the devs create characters in the various regions and experience the game as players experience it, including the issues caused by excessively high server populations. Would they feel the same about the wards if they were to sit in the yard of my Mist house (or any other player's house) for several hours a day for several days without seeing another player in the ward? That's been my experience not for days but for the 4 years I've had that house. I almost never see anyone even when I'm out doing my crafting in my yard. Never mind the occasions I'm doing the crafting inside my house so the ward may as well not even exist.

If you're almost never seeing your neighbors (or even visitors passing by), it's hard to feel like you're living in a neighborhood. What then is the point of trying to pretend that's what wards are?

[Fleap]

As someone who works in a corp with a lot of NPS junk in it, I can say with certainty that the vast majority of people that have any comments at all are the people that are displeased with their personal experience. The people who are happy or indifferent almost never participate in surveys or petitions or leave comments, and when they do, all the detractors gang up on them until they leave. I don't think anyone here should say anything about 'the majority of the players say', unless you can prove actual numbers.

Your point will be just as strong leaving those comments out. Just stick with personal experience, or give your honest thoughts. It's just being a good interlocutor.

Well, in this case we have a lead developer who really, personally likes the ward system because he believes it makes the community more tight knit. That might work on Japanese servers (or not, idk, never been in a Japanese server), but it doesn't work on Western servers very well, and our only option is to keep screaming about it until he decides to stop blocking us out.

As Jojoya pointed out, very few Japanese servers are as full as NA servers. According to ffxivcensus, there are 12,701,623 NA players to 5,532,619 Japanese. That is putting Japan at 44% the population of NA. Not basing that off of endgame population, since you only need to be level 50 to get a house.

On top of that, there are (currently) 24 NA servers for those 12.7 million people, and 32 servers for Japan's 5.5 million. That means if we were to spread out evenly, there would be 529k to one NA server, and 172k to Japan's servers. And there's still technically not enough housing for either, but the Japanese players that want a house have an easier chance for sure.

Does that clear up one of the differences, and why NA players are so much more upset about housing than Japanese players?