Compiled SAM threads against 6.1 changes / Kaiten removal

[silentwindfr]

I have added the recent SAM threads. This takes a lot more effort then I thought. Though I do like to have reminders incase I did forget a thread feedback who don't like the recent changes or are able to give alternative solutions to whatever these patch updates for SAM's have been. And I'll try to keep updating it asap.

As for my personal take on 6.11? they addressed I guess performance numbers. It still did not fix our gameplay. They robbed how enjoyable Samurai was to play and in it's place gave us some potency swaps. So probably performance-wise? Samurai's are " oke " to play, Crit Comps idk much about that though I am assuming that's still in shambles? but the enjoyment to play Samurai was stolen... to fix... absolutely nothing.

So a few potency increases 6.11? I see that as a bone to throw to players, it doesn't do anything but now they can't be told they didn't give SAM's anything. Even if its not what our feedback implied.

more we need to be realist, we will not see important change before the 6.2....
they will try to let the patch run for a month for get enough data before decide anything.
the change of the potency of midare was... erm ok, i guess, but far to be enough.
plus they didn't adress the trouble of tenka goken fact that the damage was nerfed to to the floor since it don't auto crit and the damage was reduce without kaiten.
or the fact that the damage orientation was switch from iajutsu to combo what make little to no sense.
the removal of kaiten was maybe with good intention, but since we don't know them plan it's feel weird. especially when the damage was moved around and make the sam feel unrewarding.

all we can do is wait until they decide to come out and explain us why they did make this choice and what they plan to do for adress the community feeling.

[Reenn]

Great thread, thank you for compiling so much feedback. Hope we get some response soon.

[VincentH]

Reminder that the tooltip for Tsubame-gaeshi states: "Repeats the previously executed iaijutsu with increased potency." Which is simply not true as Midare Setsugekka and Kaeshi: Setsugekka do the exact same potency. This also applies to the other iajitsu as well.

Midare Setsugekka (640 Potency) -> Kaeshi: Setsugekka (640 Potency)
Tenka Goken (280 Potency) -> Kaeshi: Goken (280 Potency)
Higanbana (200 Potency) -> Kaeshi: Higanbana (200 Potency)

[Quor]

Reminder that the tooltip for Tsubame-gaeshi states: "Repeats the previously executed iaijutsu with increased potency." Which is simply not true as Midare Setsugekka and Kaeshi: Setsugekka do the exact same potency. This also applies to the other iajitsu as well.

Midare Setsugekka (640 Potency) -> Kaeshi: Setsugekka (640 Potency)
Tenka Goken (280 Potency) -> Kaeshi: Goken (280 Potency)
Higanbana (200 Potency) -> Kaeshi: Higanbana (200 Potency)

Further evidence - to me anyway - that this was a last-minute, tacked-on change. A Sledgehammer for a fly if you will. They thought about reducing potencies but never went so far as to check to ensure the tooltips are accurate.

Does the tooltip in other versions of the game still say the same thing? JP? German? French? If so then that's indicative of a larger issue internally. What that issue is I couldn't say for sure; perhaps it was "merely" a communication error, but with this many fuck-ups packed into a single patch it's beginning to look like there's trouble in paradise as it were.

[Diadem]

Further evidence - to me anyway - that this was a last-minute, tacked-on change. A Sledgehammer for a fly if you will. They thought about reducing potencies but never went so far as to check to ensure the tooltips are accurate.

Does the tooltip in other versions of the game still say the same thing? JP? German? French? If so then that's indicative of a larger issue internally. What that issue is I couldn't say for sure; perhaps it was "merely" a communication error, but with this many fuck-ups packed into a single patch it's beginning to look like there's trouble in paradise as it were.

It's the same in french, in-game and on the official PvE jobs guide.

A little something more, in french they didn't even bother to modify the potency of shinten in the tooltip, better they even updated it for 6.11 in the PvE guide and.... it's still 270 instead of the 250.

This is some comedy material tbh

[Engaru]

I’m here to say for a fourth time,

WHAT HAPPENED!? WHAT DID YOU DO TO SAMURAI JOB!?

NOT FAVORABLE.

Extra bonus: Why was Kaeshi: Higanbana not deleted if this “action bloat issue” is such a big problem? Better show you’re fallible human being, Squenix. It might garner your division some support (and revenue) to be humble and admit a mistake.

SE stopped caring about their players and their games years ago. Yoshi-P and his team are the only ray of hope left and even that is beginning to dim with the recent changes...

[TaranTatsuuchi]

Firstly, gathering all these threads together is quite a bit of work.
So I'm grateful for your efforts.



Secondly, even though I haven't gotten to try these changes myself...

Samurai is the class I spent the most effort learning.
And from the criticism seen here, I can understand the impact being discussed.

I have to agree, many of these changes seem bad for the class.

[cjbeagle]

I haven't gotten to try these changes myself...

If you do decide to try them out yourself, please consider following up with your thoughts.

I knew I'd hate these changes as soon as I saw them on paper, but once I tried them out in game I was shocked at how much worse they were than I ever imagined.

[Edweena]

If you do decide to try them out yourself, please consider following up with your thoughts.

I knew I'd hate these changes as soon as I saw them on paper, but once I tried them out in game I was shocked at how much worse they were than I ever imagined.

They're especially worse since there's at least 3 things they could have done INSTEAD OF removing Kaiten, nvm the Tenka Goken issue.

Merge Shoha 1 & 2, give it the Spirits Within is upgraded into Expiacion like they did with Paladin at the start of EW. An easy solution that already exists.

Have ikishoten turn into Ogi Namikiri upon execution, like High Jump into Mirage Dive introduced THIS PATCH, or the Gnashing Fang combo introduced at the start of EW. Another easy solution that ALREADY EXISTS.

Lots of people jump right onto merging Hissatu: Guren / Senei which is good, but....

Is just a better solution (removes 2 buttons instead of 1, while we retain both abilities as well) since Warrior has done exactly this with Fell Cleave into Inner Chaos (the equivalent 1 target spender of shinten / senei) / Decimate into Chaotic Cyclone (another equivalent 3+= target spender that can be compared to kyuten / guren) while under the effects of Nascent Chaos, a buff granted along many other things when using Inner Release. They even have their own fucking Ogi Namikiri tied to the CD, PRIMAL REND.
SE just gave us Inner Release but somehow WORSE since we have the Ogi Namikiri being tied to Ikishoten (Like Primal Rend needing to be tied to Inner Release you see what I mean?) but miss out on saving two buttons as Guren and Senei insist on being their own CD for literally no reason.
It's been designed to be outdated for two expansions now (as someone who started in SHB I assume Inner Release was a SHB ability) and if they somehow decide to merge Guren and Senei instead I'll be frankly dissapointed since it's such a lazy effort, especially when their fellow job designers already have offered a solution to the same problems.

Oh and this Guren and Senei change would actually reduce the skill floor btw, since it removes the possibility for Guren and Senei to drift as CD's, which is ONLY a skill floor issue, and is not going to affect those at the ceiling since well, reducing drifting is not a skill attained at the ceiling.

Also no Kaiten's removal does not reduce APM, the 5 kenki cost difference is negligible, and our opener is not crowded by any means in comparison to many jobs so the only reason to remove Kaiten is for futureproofing job changes we may not see until 7.0 lol and "button bloat" which I have already solved in much better ways.

It's so frustrating looking at other jobs in the same game and how they fixed issues before they even appeared like holy shit.

[Edweena]

And yeah Tenka Goken is a real bite in the ass since they just introduced an option for actions to automatically acquire a target when using said actions, which would have been great for the "problem" of Tenka Goken previously requiring a target as it was a cone AOE.
Now we're stuck running into an intersection being asked to stand in place and hope we don't get run over by everything going on, instead of safely casting from the sidewalk of the cone aoe previously, all for the sake of "smoothing it out" and "not requiring a target" which is apparently good?