Compiled SAM threads against 6.1 changes / Kaiten removal

[Dzian]

Still of the opinion most of the arguments are naff. Rotations are static and have been basically forever. So the idea that removing g kaiten removes thought from the class... no thought when every encounter you enter you press kaiten after 12 seconds again after 18 seconds. Again 15 seconds later. And roughly every 15 seconds after that... and then you go into the next encounter and do the exact same thing.....

It doesn't even feel powerful when you use it on every single iajutsu it just becomes "standard" not "powered up"

Amusing how it's the last straw but when tanks and healers got shafted and homogenised to hell noone cared.

Kaiten is just one issue in what is ultimate a terrible combat system overall. There's o thought or choice in any of it. Just follow the same rotation over and over and over and over and over and over and over.....

[SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep]

Still of the opinion most of the arguments are naff. Rotations are static and have been basically forever. So the idea that removing g kaiten removes thought from the class... no thought when every encounter you enter you press kaiten after 12 seconds again after 18 seconds. Again 15 seconds later. And roughly every 15 seconds after that... and then you go into the next encounter and do the exact same thing.....

It doesn't even feel powerful when you use it on every single iajutsu it just becomes "standard" not "powered up"

Amusing how it's the last straw but when tanks and healers got shafted and homogenised to hell noone cared.

Kaiten is just one issue in what is ultimate a terrible combat system overall. There's o thought or choice in any of it. Just follow the same rotation over and over and over and over and over and over and over.....

Yes. You must be such a 1337 parser that you never have down time. Nor do boss fights you do ever have phases / moves / have adds / switches target / have knockbacks or have invulnerable window.

Or maybe, I dunno, you can learn what an actual SAM opener looks like because it sure as fucking hell do not do "encounter you enter you press kaiten after 12 seconds".

If you are pressing kaiten 12 seconds in, whether it's removed or not is seriously irrelevant to you.

[Dzian]

Or maybe, I dunno, you can learn what an actual SAM opener looks like because it sure as fucking hell do not do "encounter you enter you press kaiten after 12 seconds"..

Adniteddly only recently 90 but at level 80 you pretty much did kaiten after 12 ish seconds. skill speed dependant. hakaze, shifu, kasha,. hakaze, jinpu, kaiten, higabana,, gekko, meikyo, yuki, kasha, kaiten, midare... was basically the start of every encounter through 5.0

but either way whatever the 90 opener is you'd still be pressing kaiten at the same times in every encounter.. exactly how ninjas would basically always put trick attack up after the 5th gcd.. and schs would chain strat... and always the same in every encounter.

but the point remains rotations are static and repetitive.. down times a joke these days as well. near 100% uptime on many bosses and raids. its one of the reasons brds and machinists are complaining.. lower dps because high mobility is no longer a valid excuse because even melee can essentially keep 100% uptime.

combat is so static and rotations are so fixed and thoughtless. thats why the developers deliberately crippled the macro system. because Yoshi didnt want players to just macro there entire rotation and win every fight.

[cjbeagle]

Adniteddly only recently 90 but at level 80 you pretty much did kaiten after 12 ish seconds. skill speed dependant. hakaze, shifu, kasha,. hakaze, jinpu, kaiten, higabana,, gekko, meikyo, yuki, kasha, kaiten, midare... was basically the start of every encounter through 5.0

Did Meikyo Shisui not exist back then? (I started FFXIV last summer - I actually don't know).

but either way whatever the 90 opener is you'd still be pressing kaiten at the same times in every encounter

You're right, and removing Kaiten now makes that not necessarily the case because without it your kenki no longer has any interaction with your stickers. Some may approve of this change, most, it seems, do not. Having kenki actually tie into your rotation was important - without it our rotation is even simpler than it was before and kenki is just mindless Shinten spam - no need to manage it relative to your stickers, just push the button whenever you feel like it, and without Kaiten, "the button" is accurate to feel - the Shinten spam is real.

[RArchet]

Adniteddly only recently 90 but at level 80 you pretty much did kaiten after 12 ish seconds. skill speed dependant. hakaze, shifu, kasha,. hakaze, jinpu, kaiten, higabana,, gekko, meikyo, yuki, kasha, kaiten, midare... was basically the start of every encounter through 5.0

but either way whatever the 90 opener is you'd still be pressing kaiten at the same times in every encounter.. exactly how ninjas would basically always put trick attack up after the 5th gcd.. and schs would chain strat... and always the same in every encounter.

but the point remains rotations are static and repetitive.. down times a joke these days as well. near 100% uptime on many bosses and raids. its one of the reasons brds and machinists are complaining.. lower dps because high mobility is no longer a valid excuse because even melee can essentially keep 100% uptime.

combat is so static and rotations are so fixed and thoughtless. thats why the developers deliberately crippled the macro system. because Yoshi didnt want players to just macro there entire rotation and win every fight.

I mean...Duh? Most classes have a dedicated opener after all, and the majority of classes work around fitting themselves into a decent opener? Isn't it a point that SE was making most CDs 1 or 2 minutes just so we have a good amount of Synergy for openers and burst windows?

And I wouldn't have a problem with Kaiten being a short CD oGCD rather than tied to Kenki if it wasn't for a glaring issue that was introduced in 6.0. That being, Ogi Namikiri also benefits from Kaiten. My issue with removing Kaiten is more the fact that Iaijutsu now feels like it hits like a wet noodle. Adding a penny or two of damage to my basic combo isn't as interesting as our big hits, so it made the fizz into flat.

Besides the fact that Macros have an actual delay if you try to do so. I remember a popular macro back in 2.x was for BRD to tie Bloodletter as higher priority to Heavy Shot so that you can spam it and automatically use Bloodletter.

[ShanaShirayuki]

If possible, you should edit in Roxus' thread that highlights JP's response as well. Other than that, thank you for compiling this.

[Amh_Wilzuun]

Bump for visibility. I have said what I needed to say and we aren’t changing our minds on these bad changes to a once amazing job to play

[Jirah]

Either die a hero or live long enough to become DNC or worse

A healer

[xAFROx]

Did Meikyo Shisui not exist back then? (I started FFXIV last summer - I actually don't know).

Meikyo Shisui has existed since the job released in 4.0

Kaiten and Hagakure also existed since then, but Hagakure got the removal treatment in 5.0 only to be returned in a much weaker, but admittedly balanced state.

Now it's Kaiten turn to suffer it seems. Unfortunate. It's too baked into my reflexes now that using Shinten to fill the void of its removal still feels off.