Compiled SAM threads against 6.1 changes / Kaiten removal

[Kazimere]

The lack of self-awareness is truly astounding isn't it? In the same line as well It's okay, please tell us how you feel about others feeling things. Surely that will prove that you are objectively correct lol

Maybe you want to run your posts by a spell-checker, or even consult a simple dictionary to maybe not use unrelated words and demonstrate your inability to communicate in English.

Yeah, I don't need you telling me how to convey a message. I got me covered. I'm fully aware that my opinion on Kaiten being boring is subjective. It's typical of your ilk though. Instead of debating the substance of everything else I said, you attempt to label me as some hypocrite. Finally, you try to insult my intelligence, while at the same time having a post littered with grammatical errors. You're screeching like a child, and then lashing out like one when called out.

[cjbeagle]

Instead of debating the substance of everything else I said, you attempt to label me as some hypocrite.

What substance?

You claimed that Kaiten was boring - subjective - fine.

You claimed that Kaiten only provided flare.

Yes, and since you're apparently too lazy to read the threads, I'll summarize it for you in this one:

- Without Kaiten, kenki management is no longer necessary at all, which dumbs-down the gameplay.
- Without Kaiten, the choice of how to spend kenki no longer exists, which dumbs-down the gameplay.
- Without Kaiten, the choice of when to spend kenki no longer matters, which dumbs-down the gameplay.
- Without Kaiten, Iaijutsu and Ogi Namikiri hit for drastically less than they used to, which makes the job's entire kit feel flat and unsatisfying, and also makes burst windows far less important, which dumbs-down the gameplay.

Also, many players care about the animation and/or audio flourish that Kaiten provided to herald an incoming massive hit - more of a nuanced point, but worth noting.
Also, though many players would probably not notice it consciously, the RDM style action-action-wait- that Kaiten + Iaijutsu [cast] is/was important to feel - again, more of a nuanced point, but worth noting.

That's from this same thread, although such points have been made several if not dozens of times by now. Your claim has already been addressed ad nauseum - no need for further debate, you just needed to read the thread.

You claimed that the samurai community hasn't been able to defend their wishes for Kaiten to be reinstated and merely screech incessantly - our rationale for wanting it back has been articulated many, many times by now - again, you just didn't read the threads.

[Kazimere]

What substance?

You claimed that Kaiten was boring - subjective - fine.

You claimed that Kaiten only provided flare.



That's from this same thread, although such points have been made several if not dozens of times by now. Your claim has already been addressed ad nauseum - no need for further debate, you just needed to read the thread.

You claim that the samurai community hasn't been able to defend their wishes for Kaiten to be reinstated and merely screech incessantly - our rationale for wanting it back has been articulated many, many times by now - again, you just didn't read the threads.

You're claims are subjective and feelings based. You want to bring back an ability with what could be argued as objectively false claims as justification for its existence. Like, why not have Kaiten come back as an ability that lets you turn your Iaijutsu into insta cast, or something far more interesting and interactive than a dmg increase for a dopamine hit?

[KurenXIV]

I do appreciate this thread being bumped, especially by [looks at profiles] a player who only has one level 90 and it's RPR (Kazimere) and a player who admits to only playing SAM in pvp (Venico).

You two are hilarious =D

I honestly just want the change reverted to see your reaction at this point. Likely something like the NPC crying meme, "nooo you can't give players what they want!" ;D

[cjbeagle]

You're claims are subjective and feelings based. You want to bring back an ability with what could be argued as objectively false claims as justification for its existence.

The removal of Kaiten drastically simplified kenki management - that isn't subjective.

The removal of Kaiten made all kenki spenders have the same kenki-to-potency ratio, so assuming you want to save your movement abilities for when you need movement, Shinten is now your only spender. The removal of that choice and thereby simplification of the job isn't subjective.

The removal of Kaiten made the timing of your kenki spending no longer tied to sen since you no longer need to spend it prior Iaijutsu - you also no longer need kenki to use Ogi Namikiri optimally, so outside of burst windows, the timing of when you spend kenki no longer matters. That isn't subjective.

Having drastically lower burst obviously means less damage during the burst window, which obviously lessens the importance of coordinating with burst windows. That isn't subjective.

If you think you can argue that those are objectively false claims, go for it.

Like, why not have Kaiten come back as an ability that lets you turn your Iaijutsu into insta cast, or something far more interesting and interactive than a dmg increase for a dopamine hit?

For a few reasons, speaking only for myself at this point:

- The entire job design is building up resources for a big finisher - sure, it's "just feel", but it feels bad when that big finisher isn't big. It'd be like if Reaper's Enshroud window was only a slight dps increase compared to their normal rotation.

- Kenki management. It wasn't hard before, but without Kaiten it's completely braindead. Some people are fine with that change, some aren't - personally I enjoyed the little extra demand - kinda like positionals - they aren't hard, but they're better than nothing.

- "Feel" (the "wind-up" facet as well as the RDM action-action-wait cadence) - both subjective, but personally, I appreciated both.

[Kazimere]

I do appreciate this thread being bumped, especially by [looks at profiles] a player who only has one level 90 and it's RPR (Kazimere) and a player who admits to only playing SAM in pvp (Venico).

You two are hilarious =D

I honestly just want the change reverted to see your reaction at this point. Likely something like the NPC crying meme, "nooo you can't give players what they want!" ;D

Huh? Bruh, go to my lodestone if you're gonna run your mouth with nonsense.

[ThorneDynasty]

You're claims are subjective and feelings based. You want to bring back an ability with what could be argued as objectively false claims as justification for its existence. Like, why not have Kaiten come back as an ability that lets you turn your Iaijutsu into insta cast, or something far more interesting and interactive than a dmg increase for a dopamine hit?

Notice how you just made an argument for not removing kaiten?

Objective or not, countless of counterpoints have been raised already dissecting the role of kaiten in SAM rotation. Instead of tackling any of them on their merits or saying anything of substance you just go "no kaiten is boring".

[KurenXIV]

Huh? Bruh, go to my lodestone if you're gonna run your mouth with nonsense.

I did, that's what it shows me. I dunno what to tell ya "bruh" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Kazimere]

The removal of Kaiten drastically simplified kenki management - that isn't subjective.

The removal of Kaiten made all kenki spenders have the same kenki-to-potency ratio, so assuming you want to save your movement abilities for when you need movement, Shinten is now your only spender. The removal of that choice and thereby simplification of the job isn't subjective.

The removal of Kaiten made the timing of your kenki spending no longer tied to sen since you no longer need to spend it prior Iaijutsu - you also no longer need kenki to use Ogi Namikiri optimally, so outside of burst windows, the timing of when you spend kenki no longer matters. That isn't subjective.

Having drastically lower burst obviously means less damage during the burst window, which obviously lessens the importance of coordinating with burst windows. That isn't subjective.

If you think you can argue that those are objectively false claims, go for it.

There hasn't been Kenki management since SE made it so you got the maximum amount of potency so long as you were in combo. So, ShB launch? Each Sen gained gave you enough Kenki to use Kiaten. In EW you had to REALLY try to not have Kenki for Kaiten. No, there was no management and claiming that Kaiten's removal simplifies things is disingenuous. That isn't subjective.

Good, your burst needed to be clipped. That is not subjective.

The other claims are just fluff that were tied to Kenki "management," which I have refuted. Try harder.

[KurenXIV]

Good, your burst needed to be clipped. That is not subjective.

Kazimere big mad that his brain dead RPR isn't top DPS lol