Thread: Compiled SAM threads against 6.1 changes / Kaiten removal

Originally Posted by Mithron

Damage is what determines "reward" in this game. Yes, you'll have fun on any job the first few hundred hours you play it simply because it's fresh and new and exciting, but when you have thousands of hours in different jobs, you look for mastery, and the only true metric of mastery in this game as it's designed is damage dealt. I agree that playstyle is much more important than numbers for job design, but both must be addressed for a job to truly feel rewarding after the "fresh" feeling wears off. Otherwise you will always have a nagging feeling of "I could be contributing so much more on a better job, but I choose to suffer because this is the playstyle I like" and that drains your soul over time.

I mained SAM in Stormblood when it was one of the "worst" dps in the game, and i also enjoyed it the most out of any job i've played since.

In my opinion, playstlye matters quite a bit more than effectiveness. Mastery of a certain playstyle is all you need for that kind of enjoyment. Playing a job just because it's optimal isn't fun if i don't enjoy how it plays.

The only time it's fair to feel like you're bringing down your group by playing a sub-optimal class, is if you're going for world 1st or a top of the charts speedrun. It really doesn't matter otherwise.

there are 2 things that annoy me about the current Samurai:

of course the Kaiten Removal, they just could make Direct Hit the next Weaponskill thus making Direct Crit Midare/Ogi be the reward because the Player would be responsible due to Kenki Management.
No no no just hammer down your Rotation and Spam Shinten like a Bitch.

and the Circle Goken.. seriously Iaijutsu should require to target the opponent, Throwing Circle Goken willy-nilly just feels unrewarding and scrubby.
Same with Warrior's Overpower because now Warriors fart everytime they use Overpower instead of just switching the Skills: Getting Mythril Tempest at lvl10 and an stronger Cone Overpower at lvl40, no Warriors should fart for enmity now.
So yeah I want Cone Tenka Goken back.

Originally Posted by JakkuPM

I mained SAM in Stormblood when it was one of the "worst" dps in the game, and i also enjoyed it the most out of any job i've played since.

In my opinion, playstlye matters quite a bit more than effectiveness. Mastery of a certain playstyle is all you need for that kind of enjoyment. Playing a job just because it's optimal isn't fun if i don't enjoy how it plays.

The only time it's fair to feel like you're bringing down your group by playing a sub-optimal class, is if you're going for world 1st or a top of the charts speedrun. It really doesn't matter otherwise.

I completely agree.
Picking a class that will result in overall better party performance (and I deliberately say party performance because higher personal damage doesn't mean shit if it drags combined party dps down) is a thing that is completely understandable in world first races and speed runs - or in cases of poor boss HP & class balance very early into the tier, which is why I completely understood any WAR main going DRK for part 2.
But outside that, raw damage in itself isn't a reward. It's not even a reward in the abovementioned scenarios, it's simply a necessity and the reward is the successful clear/ speedrun rank.

Because what would happen if a class had hilariously high damage but accomplished it with a very barebone and repetetive rotation? People would drop it.
Generally, players choose to play a class that's fun for them to play first, something they like the gameplay style of and then look at damage but only if they're noticeable behind and doing content where it matters. They usually don't look at "Oh, but this class is 5% ahead of me, I could be contributing more by just playing that class". You still had a reasonable amount of BLMs in ShB in PF doing Savage even when SMN was so hilariously far ahead it was basically a BLM but better in every single way including raw damage which was supposed to be BLM's defining feature as a selfish DPS.
It's fairly rare for people to pick a class for raw damage, not even after hundreds of hours of gameplay. Gameplay becomes even more important the more you play it which is why so many veteran healers are salty about the lobotomized healer gameplay.

Of course reasonable DPS balance is important but I disagree that raw damage itself is a reward.

Originally Posted by Rilifane

I completely agree. / Of course reasonable DPS balance is important but I disagree that raw damage itself is a reward.

Very well said.

Square fixed Auto Crit performance after 6.1 Kaiten removal and with it? our protest increased to wanting Kaiten back. Chunk of the Community actually thought we wanted more DPS, failing to understand that we wanted our permanently lost Gameplay back.

Square silenced our critique by essentially cutting the damage we would deal with Kaiten? and integrated it passively across our entire skill kit, indirectly saying " Take the dumbed down gameplay with buffs and Stfu ".

Quite the contradiction, that the Dev's state " DPS performance is based off of Job difficulty " yet having done the following...

• Seigan removed
• Positionals give DPS bonus not Kenki anymore
• Senei/Guren Kenki cost reduced by half
• Third Eye duration increased by 1 second
• Fuga Cone becomes Fuko Circle AoE
• Tenka Goken Cone made a Circle AoE
• Iaijutsu Range increased
• Enpi cast does not disrupt combo
• Lastly " Kaiten removed "

While not all changes were without rhyme nor reason? plenty good QOL changes? They simplified Samurai's gameplay while making it easy to perform the same amount of DPS or more - contradicting their statement.

I agree with you and somehow it will never sink in with a lot of players. DPS isn't rewarding when it's made shallow. The Execution of doing something " right" constantly... possibly throughout an entire fight lasting minutes... and seeing high DPS? is rewarding. Fk'n it up because I can now indefinitely Fk up for exactly the same or more DPS? will never make it as rewarding as Kaiten did.