Thread: Compiled SAM threads against 6.1 changes / Kaiten removal

Originally Posted by Melethron123

the design of SAM as a job revolves entirely around flexible skill usage. you can use your combos in any order (as long as you don't overcap stickers) and you can even use iaijutsu mid-combo instead of having to spend stickers as soon as you're finished building them. Kaiten was an ability that went against that design philosophy because it was always used before iaijutsu and never used before other actions (except the new namikiri cooldown, i suppose), which was exceptionally rigid. (always use here, and only use here)

this flexibility of skill usage is even present on SAM's gage, since it's one of the only two jobs whose gage can hold up to 4 uses of their regular spender (the other one being DNC).

removing kaiten was a way to double down on the flexible gameplay of SAM, and i personally find the job much more fun after the change.
also makes it less punishing for people with high ping, which is always a positive in my books. (not that devs care about that, given the state of MCH)

I don't really know how well that argument holds up. If the job is all about flexibility, why can't I start a combo with Jinpu or Shifu? Why are your combos rigid in the order you use each weaponskill? Why can't you double up on the same combo and just get 2 of the same Sen rather than being forced to collect all 3? Even a zen garden needs rocks or it's just a pit of sand. My point is, having tools that offer some structure to a job's gameplay don't necessarily invalidate the otherwise flexible examples you described.

And even if we accept that logic wholeheartedly, it doesn't resolve the issues with the Kenki gauge feeling largely superfluous now. Kaiten provided several key structural points to its usage, and your ability to maintain positionals would reward you with Shintens to burn for additional damage, but you didn't want to just use them frivolously, or you'd end up without the resources to use Kaiten when your Iaijutsu came around. Now, all you really have to structure your Shinten usage is Senei, which is only once per minute. Beyond that, just use Shinten without a care in the world. It begs the question of whether or not the Kenki gauge even matters anymore. Why not just remove it, and make Shinten a cooldown, since Senei is already on a cooldown? Sure there's the mobility buttons, but its not like other jobs don't just have those on a charge system.

And that's not saying they won't make the kenki gauge more effective in 7.0, but we're just now getting into 6.3. We have a year to go of SAM's gauge being almost as bad as SCH's fey gauge, and you know the state of your job is critical if anything about it is comparable to the healers.

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I don't really know how well that argument holds up. If the job is all about flexibility, why can't I start a combo with Jinpu or Shifu?

Shisui is right there for you, buddy

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

And even if we accept that logic wholeheartedly, it doesn't resolve the issues with the Kenki gauge feeling largely superfluous now. Kaiten provided several key structural points to its usage, and your ability to maintain positionals would reward you with Shintens to burn for additional damage, but you didn't want to just use them frivolously, or you'd end up without the resources to use Kaiten when your Iaijutsu came around. Now, all you really have to structure your Shinten usage is Senei, which is only once per minute. Beyond that, just use Shinten without a care in the world. It begs the question of whether or not the Kenki gauge even matters anymore. Why not just remove it, and make Shinten a cooldown, since Senei is already on a cooldown? Sure there's the mobility buttons, but its not like other jobs don't just have those on a charge system.

during the course of building stickers you'd get around 60 kenki and kaiten costs 20. so nobody who's even trying to do a somewhat decent rotation would ever see themselves running out of kenki to use kaiten.

also, you don't use your shintens "willy-nilly" because you want to maximize the number of shintens during buff windows