Thread: Compiled SAM threads against 6.1 changes / Kaiten removal

Originally Posted by Archwizard

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Nobody said proper usage of Kaiten was a mark of skill. The loss of Kaiten was an issue because we no longer had something to think about while looping. That something being overspending kenki and being punished for doing so when you don't have enough kenki to kaiten the iaijutsu coming up. Don't get me wrong here, Kenki management was not hard, but it was nice to keep that braincell working even a little bit

Kaiten was half the job. Now you just have a Shinten gauge. And everyone hates using Shinten. They killed it.

The loss of Kaiten would be better received if Shinten and it's AoE counterpart upgraded into Senei and Guren instead of being 2 minute gated skills.

And they turned Ikishoten into the new Kaiten to activate Namikiri.

And what's worse is they put Kaiten in as a buff in PvP. Circus clowns the lot of them.

Wouldn't it have been so much BETTER if you could Kaiten Midare and then Ikishoten Namikiri? Holy moly.

Originally Posted by Archwizard

As someone who plays SAM casually, I'm of two minds on the change...

As someone who only plays SAM 24/7 and a lot into Savage, I'm of one mind... Samurai gameplay that was taken from us.

Button Bloat Argument
Debunked countlessly including by yourself. Square's concern was labeled Button Bloat when what they really meant was " Dumbing Samurai down for the Casual player base ".

The following skills could have been activations/fused/merged-buttons etc such as...

• Ikishoten / Ogi Namikiri
• Shoha / Shoha II
• Guren / Senei
• Midare / Tsubame

All the while keeping Kaiten and keeping the gameplay of Samurai exactly the same. Their excuse was just lazy.

More Buttons for the sake of more Buttons is as good as Less buttons for the sake of Less. With no substance/complexity/depth? it becomes hollow. Segway to the overused argument...

A Button you press every-time
In the grand scheme of things, every button is a button you press every time. Kaiten uniquely the last of its kind that embodies the fantasy of charging up to land big hits that Yoshi P himself admitted is the reason SAM is fun. If Kaiten was deemed so meaningless, what is Shinten? put under same scrutiny it falls apart.

Kaiten Skill Expressive?
Factually? Shinten spamming is dumber then Kaiten Execution, which at least required to juggle Kenki management. More thought holding 100 Kenki max for burst phases where as Shinten makes that near thoughtless. The Skill Expression and Satisfaction is not to perform Kaiten right once, its do this right 24/7 over engagements that can last 6/7/8/9/10 minutes. That takes I would say at least an ounce of skill more then Shinten yes.

As for who asked for Kaiten to go?
Literally no one, I even have links in this threads of players warning Square to not do this.

Do we still want Kaiten back?
Plenty do. But will it happen? probably not. The most important thing was that Square, Yoshi and Dev's asked us to give them feedback. We gave it, and the important thing to note was that they ignored us. They just made us top ADPS just to shut our critique up which admittedly it worked. Was it right? I don't think so, cause Yoshi's words were also " DPS is based off of Job Difficulty " and after 6 QOL/Simplifications to Samurai, Kaiten included - their doing the opposite by making our damage performance go up... which many of us weren't giving feedback for.

So? Enjoy what you have. Samurai I still enjoy. But I will never forget that Samurai used to be more complex, a lot more satisfying to play, and a lot more rewarding to achieve high damage with then what it is now in 6.2+

Kaiten's removal is made worse because Shinten is a weird little poke, and both looks & feels wrong. Kaiten was elegant, methodical - Shinten is a poke. And pokes are annoying.

Beating a dead horse but stop looking at reasons for why Kaiten was ever removed to make life better for the players or improve our experience of the game, only some SE drone seriously think that. It was removed purely because it was a an annoying abbilities for the dev to work around right now with auto crit balance and in the future for new abbilities.

This is why everyones playing sam was baffled to learn it was removed at first and why they couldn't ever come up with a good sounding excuse or argument for the removal and now dodge the subject entirely, they know with time more and more peoples will forget or not even know about it anyway.

Kaiten is not back in 6.25, please bring it back.

Just make it auto crit and add the potency of a shinten to the next iaijutsu + 5 kenki potency, even that would be enough.
Juste make it so Kenki is not as boring as it is !
PLEASE

Originally Posted by Deithwen

Kaiten is not back in 6.25, please bring it back.

Just make it auto crit and add the potency of a shinten to the next iaijutsu + 5 kenki potency, even that would be enough.
Juste make it so Kenki is not as boring as it is !
PLEASE

Its not coming back. We wont see what they have fully planned for SAM until 7.0. Until then my happy ass will enjoy how rewarding BLM is to play.

Originally Posted by Ransu

Until then my happy ass will enjoy how rewarding BLM is to play.

Rewarding? BLM does less rDPS than all melee while still being behind SAM in aDPS. It's not rewarding enough, which is why I don't have as much fun playing BLM any more.

Originally Posted by Mithron

Rewarding? BLM does less rDPS than all melee while still being behind SAM in aDPS. It's not rewarding enough, which is why I don't have as much fun playing BLM any more.

I don't really care about any of that. The execution of playing BLM well in savage fights is extremely fun and I embrace that challenge. I do believe SAM and BLM should always be at the top of the charts, but on a personal level I play whats fun and SAM isn't fun anymore with the loss of kaiten and changing attacks to auto crits. Keeping enochian up and making sure not to interrupt my casts and timing when and where to use leylines/triple casts is a ton of fun. Fortunately SAM had some casts as well so I was able to dive right into slide casting in certain mechanics as well.

Originally Posted by Mithron

Rewarding? BLM does less rDPS than all melee while still being behind SAM in aDPS. It's not rewarding enough, which is why I don't have as much fun playing BLM any more.

No wonder the devs think SAM is fine in its current state. Because people like this think high damage > good gameplay