Thread: Compiled SAM threads against 6.1 changes / Kaiten removal

Thank you for making this thread. Now here's hoping that 1) SE listens. 2) People stop posting useless crap like "I'd rather be having fun than posting on the forums".

(re: Tenka Goken)

Originally Posted by beatts

The 360 degree version:

a) feels bad to use for some reason -- probably because the shorter range but same "shockwave" animation plays when the cast completes, but because the travel distance is so reduced, you barely see the shockwaves.
b) now has a clipped/awkward animation that contributes more to the move feeling unsatisfying.

What you say is true, but I think there's even more to it:
- Making Tenka Goken circular, combined with Fuko now making our AOE combo starter circular, means our entire AOE rotation is now circular - we no longer need to reposition for various attacks at all, which makes the entire AOE rotation less engaging, Tenka Goken included.
- Without having to reposition for Tenka Goken, we lost a facet of anticipation preceding it.
- Without having Kaiten to use before Tenka Goken, we lost a facet of anticipation preceding it.
- Without Kaiten, Tenka Goken's effective potency is massively diminished, destroying the anticipation by destroying the payoff.
- With the massive nerf to Kaeshi: Goken's potency, the anticipation for Tenka Goken's Tsubame-gaeshi is destroyed by destroying the payoff. (reduced from 420 to 280.)

Originally Posted by cjbeagle

(re: Tenka Goken)


What you say is true, but I think there's even more to it:
- Making Tenka Goken circular, combined with Fuko now making our AOE combo starter circular, means our entire AOE rotation is now circular - we no longer need to reposition for various attacks at all, which makes the entire AOE rotation less engaging, Tenka Goken included.
- Without having to reposition for Tenka Goken, we lost a facet of anticipation preceding it.
- Without having Kaiten to use before Tenka Goken, we lost a facet of anticipation preceding it.
- Without Kaiten, Tenka Goken's effective potency is massively diminished, destroying the anticipation by destroying the payoff.
- With the massive nerf to Kaeshi: Goken's potency, the anticipation for Tenka Goken's Tsubame-gaeshi is destroyed by destroying the payoff. (reduced from 420 to 280.)

Yes, this is all very well said and I agree 100%. I had thoughts along these lines as well when I first tested SAM after the patch, but didn't think of posting in the forums until now and I'd forgotten some of these details.

But this is such an important point. It's not just that the new version feels bad in and of itself, but that it's so much less interesting compared to what we had before. Just as you say, the dynamic of side-stepping the fray while powering up with kaiten, and then once in position unleashing the shockwave...it was fun. It looked cool, it felt cool. The new tenka goken is a button I press in my rotation (sometimes twice when tsubame-gaeshi is up,) and just have faith that some damage occurs. If I didn't know how MMO ability rotations worked and didn't have access to damage numbers or tooltips, I'd probably ignore it entirely in my AOE rotation because the basic attacks feel more impactful.