The Devs aren't your personal friends and valid criticism isn't "harrassment"

[elioaiko]

I've yet to actually see death threats and more about people threatening to unsub which should be scarier for the company as far as threat level is concerned.

But yeah people have this weird attachment to the devs like they're one phone call away from them. They're not your friends and constructive criticism is valid.

It's funny that it took us getting limited races when there's no reason it shouldn't be limited (modders literally aren't getting paid and still do a better job), jobs being near unplayable (MCH, WHM, DRK), and blatantly dismissive comments (go heal Ultimate if you want a challenge) for the playerbase to be up in arms about their feedback.

It's okay to criticize developers for things we as a community feel are misguided. And there wouldn't be complaints if the changes are actually good.

White Knights doing the most for a gaming company (mind you a company that isn't an indie studio) that could care less about their devotion to the game.

[Syln]

The recent issues such as housing, hrothgars, healing, or lack of job depth are all valid points of concern.

"But death threats" what death threats? This always gets brought up in this discussion when people in the community have issues with something in the game, yet there is never any of these type of comments in criticism thread. It's a baseless scapegoat that is constantly used to dismiss points of discussion and criticism.

These people need to stop taking these valid points of criticism as a personal attack to themselves nor do they need to find every excuse to let them slide. We are paying for a service and they are paid to provide a service.

I don't need someone to be my friend to have a certain degree of sympathy for them and valid criticism that are vitriolic do a disservice to the point they are trying to make.

You know if you want people to join your point of view, here's a tips : don't start your argument by antagonizing them (unless you're just trying to troll.)

[Imoen]

snip

I mean, in absolute fairness, modders mod something because they want to when they want to. Devs have their lead/boss telling them exactly what tasks they should be doing, how long they should be spending on them (Deadline), and what exact points they need to hit with it, along with the other 30 items on the list that need to be tackled in order of shifting priorities, whilst also getting frequent lists of bug reports from QA with varying degrees of priorities that need to be addressed... So it's a bit of an unfair comparison on that point.

With that said ya, call out crap you don't like, that's fine.

[CrownySuccubus]

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-is-concerning



32 likes.

This was said in response to :

But the person isn't claiming that you literally cannot ever criticize the devs.

Their next reply even said:

“Hold them accountable through reasonable means or this game will go the way of WoW,” when responding to a thread asking folks to not send death threats is saying exactly what I said.

Here’s a handy guide.

If you aren’t sending death threats = you can ignore the post congrats!

If you are sending death threats = then this one’s for you!

See it’s easy to understand.

[Lecru]

For anyone interested in that, here's a compilation of that threads OP's behavior after his initial post. It's a perfect example of someone using accusations of harassment as an excuse to shutdown opposition, all the while acting in bad faith and engaging in behavior that violates the very standard they wish to enforce on others.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5908247

You do realize you're not allowed to single people out like this. Correct. And it's subject to a ban

[VictorSpoils]

Schrödinger's death threat?

[Krotoan]

You do realize you're not allowed to single people out like this. Correct. And it's subject to a ban

You're not .. allowed to quote people on the forums for what they say on the forums?

Are you confusing this with not calling out peoples characters in game on the forums?

[Kolsykol]

Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it didn't exist, they do remove comments on the forums.

I also don't think that calling it out or telling people to tone it down is the same thing as dismissing criticism either.
I think that generally speaking people are behaving like children about their criticism, I mean I can get spicey and be a bit snarky too but I don't call the devs names and act like they're mentally challenged or something.
Ultimately yes while there are issues and some of them are a bit baffling that they're even issues to begin with, to act like because issues exist that the devs are just stupid and incompetent is ridiculous.
People need to calm down and behave like normal human beings and not like entitled children, the devs aren't out to get you they're not intentionally making bad decisions actually keep that in mind.
And that's what quite a lot of people are acting like.

The problem is that the response people are giving towards the devs is like the devs have ill intent, would you not agree that if someone has an ill intent or not actually matters?
It doesn't mean that stuff isn't bad, but if someone drops a sledgehammer on their way out from the store on your car and dents it that's very different than if someone intentionally runs up and smashes it repeatedly with the intent to ruin it.
An actual adult should understand the difference and respond accordingly but that's not what's happening.

[BingleNingle]

But the person isn't claiming that you literally cannot ever criticize the devs.

Their next reply even said:

But that was after they decided the last statement was about death threats. Which it clearly wasn't. And the OP didn't bring it up either. They quoted the person and paraphrased them to suggest they were making a death threat. Which the person was not, and the OP had not called out. Eara decided it was all about death threats on their own.

I'm sure there's people out there who are committing such acts, but as it stands the people in this thread were not and suggesting as such is really dangerous alarmism.

ETA: The base point of the post still stands and I think is fine. It's just someone who wanted to remind everyone to not go overboard.

[Alaray]

But the person isn't claiming that you literally cannot ever criticize the devs.

Their next reply even said:

The point is the poster, Eara, in response to who they quoted before was written in bad faith. That poster put words into the other's mouth that were not written, nor implied considering that poster's use of "reasonable" which should be clear enough. Then they, despite their own misunderstanding of what was written, chose to behave in a condescending manner to write off what that person actually did say later on. When faced with the reality that they misinterpreted someone's post, chose to then become defensive and try to bolster that their original position was correct even though it's based on a false understanding of the words written.

It's a childish response, and while to a degree I could give benefit of the doubt that the reason the misinterpretation occurred is due to the content of the original post being specific towards "don't send harassment/death threats" and the appearance of disagreeing... the way this person worded what followed tells me they don't really care about that and are more interested in moral grandstanding, instead.

For clarity's sake: I think extreme posts, such as death threats, wish for violence, firing and ruining someone's life etc... is pathetic and deplorable to do. However, I do think that there are people who feel more skeptical about claims coming out of, what can feel like, nowhere without a source to point to for it being a widespread issue when it is brought up all the time even in reference to people making reasonable, thought through criticisms where it's not applicable to try and shut down their critique (which is in bad faith to do, since it's unnecessary to do so and unneeded, only serving to try and discredit someone else for something they never said or were a part of).

Ironically, behaving like Eara did in this case is what causes the skepticism. Because people take advantage of a pretty messed up situation and choose to use it as a weapon to lord over everyone they disagree with, even when it's not applicable and instead choose to miscontextualize or misconstrue or misrepresent what the people they're responding to have actually said.