What is going on with Square Enix and the 14 team?

[BaconBits]

No offense, but I think you're a bit off your rocker mate. I really don't see how nature over nurture has anything to do with healer design. It seems like you're just getting off to how you want healers to cry and scream kek

Think you just need a subby healslut instead of whatever this is

Everyone knows tanks are the real subs for their healer masters.

Source: Don't worry about it.

[SieyaM]

Had to trim your post.

Interesting argument. Shall I pull multiple threads that I have started about how tanks need to take MORE damage, and healers need to SWEAT more instead of crying about their DPS "rotation" is boring. I am completely in the camp of restore the holy trinity style gameplay. I mentioned this ALLL the way back when shadowbringers launched. When you start to see tank only runs, 1 healer runs, and no healer dungeon runs I was thinking...huh...this COMPLETELY invalidates healers by a HUGE degree, this can be fixed by making a party just take....I don't know...more damage they can't fix without 1-2 healers?

Nope....now here we are....the game is primarily hyper focused on DPS first...and 2nd, and 3rd, and 4th. Kill the boss before enrage...that's all that matters. Why bring a healer when you can bring a SAM or a MNK. Just kill it before you need heals...that's the key right?

Wrong....if I had it my way.... I would make healers cry....make them scream to the heavens about DPS standing in the fire. Then watch as they refuse to heal people standing in fire.... nature over nurture. Nature always wins. DPS is pointless on a healer anyway...sure it all adds up...but to me...it's superficial...a placebo effect. Add more moments that REQURE healers to heal and healers would NEVER push those dps buttons.

Those battle hardened healers that don't crumble under a constant barrage of damage...those are the ones I want in a party...those are the healers I want when the chips are down. Enrage be damned if a good healer can be that clutch moment we need.

Not even going to dignify response about what I can or can't be commenting on with not having this current tier cleared. I don't hold peoples FFLOGS against them when trying to prove a point, which that I struck a nerve for some if you have to run to FFLOGS to prove a point that you don't like hearing. I'm not recruiting anyone on my side to defend my points, look at my FFLOGS....I don't care....I'm still proud of what my static has accomplished. Parse be damned....I literally don't care.

Simply increasing the damage to an amount that requires constant healing and turns healers into cure bots instead of glare bots, it does not solve the source of the issue. Healers already use most of the oGCDs in the current content and so adding more damage means you're casting a bunch of cures or benefics instead of glare or malefic, but it does not make them anymore engaging to play. Healer kits are just poorly designed, nearly none of the abilities work together or seem to be designed with the intention of being used together. The only two skills I can think of that actually work as part of a kit are Horoscope and Planery, they work to actually increase healing and do something with your existing kit, everything else just kind of is a stand alone skill.

[Deceptus]

The problem ISN'T healers rotation is busted or boring...

The problem is enemies/bosses completely invalidate healers.

They just don't hit hard enough.

When a tank "buster" hit's my warrior for 10% of my HP ( 90k HP or something like that)...one button completely invalidates a healer....bloodwhetting or equilibrium. Don't worry healer...I got this...continue DPSING....

the healer *sighs* as there is no immediate danger.

If that tank buster hit me for 75% or 80% of my HP...well....now we're talking....equilibrium won't even come close to healing 70k...i'll need help.

And veteran healers saw what you're talking about a mile away. SE says they're going to increase healing requirements but they never do in a substantial way.

[MiaShino]

If that tank buster hit me for 75% or 80% of my HP...well....now we're talking....equilibrium won't even come close to healing 70k...i'll need help.

Sure sure these should be more threatening especially without the cooldowns but I hate to break this news..

My order of operations would likely be;

Hmm, should I bene? Well, the raidwide is coming soon and my aoe heals will catch the tank too. Passive healing should resolve the rest and their bloodwhetting will be off cooldown again too. Alright! *glare* > *indulgence* > *rapture* > *assize + asylum*. All good! If the timing is good miiiight help mit both raidwide and buster with a slightly early temperance or if assize did not line up I can boost Rapture with it.

[KariTheFox]

I think the issue with healing is that there's not really much of a curve to healing requirements at all. There's almost no required healing for any content below p3s, and then the final two raid tiers introduce a number of pretty severe healing checks when there is nothing really at all before them. The curve could be smoother and start ramping up earlier in savage and extreme content, instead of being a severe wall that suddenly shows up in p3s.

(and of course the other issue is if that fights only have one severe healing check, plenty of groups will just invalidate it with the use of healing lb3 anyway)

[Kyrj]

The problem ISN'T healers rotation is busted or boring...

The problem is enemies/bosses completely invalidate healers.

They just don't hit hard enough.

When a tank "buster" hit's my warrior for 10% of my HP ( 90k HP or something like that)...one button completely invalidates a healer....bloodwhetting or equilibrium. Don't worry healer...I got this...continue DPSING....

the healer *sighs* as there is no immediate danger.

If that tank buster hit me for 75% or 80% of my HP...well....now we're talking....equilibrium won't even come close to healing 70k...i'll need help.

I mean their rotation is boring as shit, but I see what you're trying to say. For example Xenosys Vex just did a blind run on the new dungeon (I know it's not Savage or Ult) with a WAR tank and 3 dps. They didn't need a healer, how sad is that? Brand new dungeon and healer wasn't even needed.

[Thoosa]

Imo ff14 is no longer applying the definition of a Holy Trinity Mmo with clearly defined roles, like for example:

“This is a healer, this role has a set of tools to heal the party (the primary responsibility of a healer is to heal and dps second). Content is designed to require this role as part of the party in order to complete the content”.

“This is a dps - this role has a set of skills to burn down things to beat an enrage or some other timer”.

“This is a tank, this role requires to keep the focus of the boss/mobs on themselves and to stay alive using cds and to interrupt deadly casts”.

Healers are already becoming less required in much of the content, how long before tanks are obsolete? Will they just make certain dps roles wear tankier gear? Are they trying to remove the whole trinity and create an ESO like system?

[Nethereal]

Imo ff14 is no longer applying the definition of a Holy Trinity Mmo with clearly defined roles, like for example:
“This is a dps - this role has a set of skills to burn down things to beat an enrage or some other timer”.

Maybe my apathy to the healing situation has grown over the years but I just realized after reading this the way current healers are designed in ffxiv they no longer(if it ever did) fit the holy trinity definition of healer.

In other games where healing was engaging, dangerous, and fun my entire existence & my sole job was to keep everyone alive and to keep my debuff on the boss up.

Sure I had a damage combo for leveling but I never used it because the risks were nowhere near the reward, I did little damage and the boss would either 1-3 shot me.
Instead I devoted my self to keeping my tank & dps alive so they could kill the boss, because their job was to make it easier for dps to deal damage & too kill the boss.
My miniscule damage while adequate for leveling and defending myself against players paled in comparison to everything else I could & should be doing.

With the way healers are right now in ffxiv if it was any other game they would have no shame in saying they're a dps support class. Being able to do half the total dps of an actual dps with a healer, that's crazy.

In any other game you'd be lucky to be doing even half the damage of a dps as a tank, let alone a healer. And with the way dungeons are being done now healers really are just support dps at this point.

It really just comes back to Yoshi's vision: All encompassing inclusion.

There can exist no boarders, no walls, no job requirements, and no tests for such a thing to be possible and by doing so you loosen the restrictions on class identity.
Tanks are tanky healers, healers are support dps, and dps are just the same as the last two except their mechanic is actually having a real rotation instead of healing and whatever tanks have left to do.

[Payadopa]

Some people really need to take a step back and take a break. I just did for 2 months. Works wonders. Sounds like the devs pissed on your cerials and slapped the dog.

I am not a big fan of the shallowness of the combat as well but holy shit. Way to blow things out of proportions. I tried other MMOs and XIV is by far the best for me personally (Guild Wars 2 being the only exception in a few aspects like the combat). Feedback is very important so I'll give it but this doom and gloom here.. 10 years or so and counting. lol

[Recon1o6]

Some people really need to take a step back and take a break. I just did for 2 months. Works wonders. Sounds like the devs pissed on your cerials and slapped the dog.

I am not a big fan of the shallowness of the combat as well but holy shit. Way to blow things out of proportions. I tried other MMOs and XIV is by far the best for me personally (Guild Wars 2 being the only exception in a few aspects like the combat). Feedback is very important so I'll give it but this doom and gloom here.. 10 years or so and counting. lol

Taking a break doesnt work when this has been going on and getting worse over 6 years. That moves into unsub territory