What is going on with Square Enix and the 14 team?

[CrownySuccubus]

I seriously doubt they want to release female hrothgar. They are probably only doing it out of obligation since male viera set the precedent of the counterparts being released, but also to show they are listening.

No, female Roe and male Miqote are what set that precedent.

People forget that they were gender-locked races in 1.0.

[Liam_Harper]

It's as I said in the Hrothgar hair thread about twice now. No one asked for Hrothgar, not even the furry fandom thought it'd be done. At least, there wasn't as much of a demand as Viera, and that one demand happened because of concept art from early Heavensward. Square themselves thought it was a good idea to add Hrothgar. Which <--- you can tell I honestly like. But given how they're being treated, one really needs to ask what changed. Why are they so resentful?

If there's any resentment, they're being petty about it.

There's no doubt Viera, including male Viera, were a massive success. They're popular and have a high population percentage as far as races go. They probably made the company a ridiculous amount in fantasia sales. And that's only the half done version with limited hats and hairstyles, imagine if they were fully polished.

SE's idea for a race was not a success. As nice as Hrothgar are to have, they just aren't popular at all. As it turns out, players knew what they wanted and their feedback was a huge benefit to the company.

You think they'd learn and listen to the fans, instead of resenting them.

[SturmChurro]

No, female Roe and male Miqote are what set that precedent.

People forget that they were gender-locked races in 1.0.

Nope. Different circumstances, and neither race are limited, and weren't stated as being the "last chance" for new races to be made available, as far as I am aware. They stated prior to release of both viera and hrothgar, exactly how expensive it is to create and maintain a race. That by making these races available, at the time, they could just maintain their patch schedule.

[CrownySuccubus]

Nope. Different circumstances, and neither race are limited, and weren't stated as being the "last chance" for new races to be made available, as far as I am aware. They stated prior to release of both viera and hrothgar, exactly how expensive it is to create and maintain a race. That by making these races available, at the time, they could just maintain their patch schedule.

I'm not seeing what this had to do with what I said about female Roe and male Miqote setting the "gender counterpart" standard.

SE has seen twice now that when they gender-lock a race, players eventually demand gender counterparts to be unlocked. This happened in FFXI, then in 1.0 (which they corrected in 2.0), and then again in 5.0 (which they've now half-corrected). They have no excuse to keep making the same mistake.

If they don't want to keep making more work for themselves, they should do it right the first time.

[SherlottaEryut]

SE has seen twice now that when they gender-lock a race, players eventually demand gender counterparts to be unlocked. This happened in FFXI, then in 1.0 (which they corrected in 2.0), and then again in 5.0 (which they've now half-corrected). They have no excuse to keep making the same mistake.

If they don't want to keep making more work for themselves, they should do it right the first time.

I'm guessing SE figured this time could be different? People wanted a race that existed in previous games (female Viera) and bare in mind SE never had any visual concept for what male Viera looked like, so pretty much a 10+ year old lore was the reason for gender-locking of that race, which still in my opinion, is not such an atrocious thing. As I also said in the female Hrothgar thread, male Hrothgar probably were pretty much meant to be Viera's gender counterpart considering these are 'two unique races' being brought in at the same time.

[IdowhatIwant]

Yall realize, when the graphical update comes out. Viera's probably still won't be able to wear hats. I am calling it now.

[SturmChurro]

I'm not seeing what this had to do with what I said about female Roe and male Miqote setting the "gender counterpart" standard.

SE has seen twice now that when they gender-lock a race, players eventually demand gender counterparts to be unlocked. This happened in FFXI, then in 1.0 (which they corrected in 2.0), and then again in 5.0 (which they've now half-corrected). They have no excuse to keep making the same mistake.

If they don't want to keep making more work for themselves, they should do it right the first time.

You think I disagree that they should have done it right? I'm just trying to look at and present their point of view. Considering all the circumstances as they were, viera and hrothgar, as they were, were supposed to the "one last hurrah" as far as player races were concerned. Covid wasn't a factor at the time, nor do I think they believed the game would receive a ten year plan.

"Demanding" is exactly right, and the expectation that these races were "unfinished", is why I believe people are seeing SE, or Yoshida, appear resentful, or annoyed.

[CrownySuccubus]

You think I disagree that they should have done it right? I'm just trying to look at and present their point of view. Considering all the circumstances as they were, viera and hrothgar, as they were, were supposed to the "one last hurrah" as far as player races were concerned. Covid wasn't a factor at the time, nor do I think they believed the game would receive a ten year plan.

"Demanding" is exactly right, and the expectation that these races were "unfinished", is why I believe people are seeing SE appear resentful, or annoyed.

I really don't know what you are arguing against, to be quite honest. Again, none of this is the players' problem. Look, I understand the plight of the game devs (as in, the actual programmers and coders who have to do all this work -- not the suits and management types who tell them what they can and can't do and what to put in the game and what not to). No fan told them to make these races the "one last hurrah". No fan told them to gender lock the species. No fan told them to deliberately release the Viera/Hrothgar with limited glam options.

Whether it was management that told them "Aw, nobody's going to care. Just gender-lock the races and make them unable to equip certain glams" or the devs decided on it themselves because it was too much work, it's Square's own fault for how poorly things have gone.

I'm guessing SE figured this time could be different? People wanted a race that existed in previous games (female Viera) and bare in mind SE never had any visual concept for what male Viera looked like, so pretty much a 10+ year old lore was the reason for gender-locking of that race, which still in my opinion, is not such an atrocious thing. As I also said in the female Hrothgar thread, male Hrothgar probably were pretty much meant to be Viera's gender counterpart considering these are 'two unique races' being brought in at the same time.

And as I already said: they literally went through all this before with Galka/Mithra in FFXI and the Roegadyn/Miqote in FFXIV. Those races were also "gender counterparts" of each other, so Square already knew that fans weren't all that keen on being gender-locked. Especially when strictly on such superficial reasons as "Gurlz cute; Dudez beefcake".

To use a very over-quoted phrase: "...everywhere I looked, doing the exact same f-----g thing... over and over and over and over again thinking 'this time is gonna be different. No, no, no please... This time is gonna be different'."

[KizuyaKatogami]

I'm guessing SE figured this time could be different? People wanted a race that existed in previous games (female Viera) and bare in mind SE never had any visual concept for what male Viera looked like, so pretty much a 10+ year old lore was the reason for gender-locking of that race, which still in my opinion, is not such an atrocious thing. As I also said in the female Hrothgar thread, male Hrothgar probably were pretty much meant to be Viera's gender counterpart considering these are 'two unique races' being brought in at the same time.

Iirc they do have Visual concept art for male viera that they released during HW. The issue seemed to be Yoshi P…he made a pretty unsightly comment of “well, bunny boys would be weird so we might have to come up with an alternative for the males.” Why would bunny boys be weird yoshi p? O.o then again they were also against giving a bunny outfit to males for awhile as well….interesting interesting insights.

[Rokke]

Yall realize, when the graphical update comes out. Viera's probably still won't be able to wear hats. I am calling it now.

Graphical update means textures and lighting...so it wouldn't be shocking that they still cannot wear hats. Hats/hair are model issues.