What is going on with Square Enix and the 14 team?

[ShadowyZero]

Maybe I'm missing the point of the OP...., but I find it difficult to see what FFXIV has failed to do.

1. housing is a broken mess

2. glamour is heavily restricted by job/class, and level based. not too mention items being rerolled and recycled to the point of why bother even making new clothing items?

3. horrible homogenization of existing jobs

4. dungeons cut down significantly and less frequent and designed now as nothing more than a single narrow path

5.same content cycle since HW with no signs of stopping now baby, lets keep that boring repetition rolling til we all die and while we are at lets copy the previous expansion we just did but place a new sticker on it.

6. severely lacking in open world interaction and retention (FATES are not fun to spam for 2+ expansions it just becomes a chore, and hunts are way to exclusive an not nearly inclusive enough due to weekly lock out rather than than just having the big baddies respawn on a timer every two-three days.) and for beast tribe content see point #5 above.

7. as for PvP maybe CC was good flavor to add to PvP but it quickly becomes boring after 10+ matches of doing literally nothing than pummeling the other team while playing tug o war with a giant moveable crystal and the rewards are not new but recycled too this ain't it chief we need some PvP that keeps player attention an requires actual effort and planning not a mindless slog feast to grind til you become blue or red in the face etc

[Listrella]

1. housing is a broken mess

2. glamour is heavily restricted by job/class, and level based. not too mention items being rerolled and recycled to the point of why bother even making new clothing items?

3. horrible homogenization of existing jobs

4. dungeons cut down significantly and less frequent and designed now as nothing more than a single narrow path

5.same content cycle since HW with no signs of stopping now baby, lets keep that boring repetition rolling til we all die and while we are at lets copy the previous expansion we just did but place a new sticker on it.

6. severely lacking in open world interaction and retention (FATES are not fun to spam for 2+ expansions it just becomes a chore, and hunts are way to exclusive an not nearly inclusive enough due to weekly lock out rather than than just having the big baddies respawn on a timer every two-three days.) and for beast tribe content see point #5 above.

7. as for PvP maybe CC was good flavor to add to PvP but it quickly becomes boring after 10+ matches of doing literally nothing than pummeling the other team while playing tug o war with a giant moveable crystal and the rewards are not new but recycled too this ain't it chief we need some PvP that keeps player attention an requires actual effort and planning not a mindless slog feast to grind til you become blue or red in the face etc

1. housing has always beena problem, but this has never been the focus of the game.
2. this is just petty, nothing more than easthetics, no effect on gameplay.
3. i'm just amazed they've made all classes viable, if they tried to make all the classes too different some would surely be left by the wayside in terms of job balance, I think this is the best way.
4. you want to know what we got when the tried to have a dungeon with branching paths? toto-rak which is it's previous form was the most boring dungeon they've ever done.
5. why fix what isn't broken? they keep this content cycle because it works. i've seen SWTOR try to mix up what content they deliver and it's been a disaster. and also it's not like we don't new things each expansion, for instance we have island sanctuary and criterion dungeons coming up.
6. any open world content will become repetitive after a while. i've seen games handle it far worse.
7. PVP has never been this game's focus, just be glad this patch is and improvement, any form pvp will becoming boring after a while. though granted i'm probably the wrong person to ask about this, I just don't like pvp in general.

[WaxSw]

1. housing has always beena problem, but this has never been the focus of the game.
2. this is just petty, nothing more than easthetics, no effect on gameplay.
3. i'm just amazed they've made all classes viable, if they tried to make all the classes too different some would surely be left by the wayside in terms of job balance, I think this is the best way.
4. you want to know what we got when the tried to have a dungeon with branching paths? toto-rak which is it's previous form was the most boring dungeon they've ever done.
5. why fix what isn't broken? they keep this content cycle because it works. i've seen SWTOR try to mix up what content they deliver and it's been a disaster. and also it's not like we don't new things each expansion, for instance we have island sanctuary and criterion dungeons coming up.
6. any open world content will become repetitive after a while. i've seen games handle it far worse.
7. PVP has never been this game's focus, just be glad this patch is and improvement, any form pvp will becoming boring after a while. though granted i'm probably the wrong person to ask about this, I just don't like pvp in general.

Imagine saying 3 after watching the 6.0 healers where while all of where unoriginal 1 button spam classes Whm had the worst mp economy, the worst healing and the worst damage per second. Their design is inexcusable no matter how you want to white knight it

[Sqwall]

Imagine saying 3 after watching the 6.0 healers where while all of where unoriginal 1 button spam classes Whm had the worst mp economy, the worst healing and the worst damage per second. Their design is inexcusable no matter how you want to white knight it

I can't get behind the healer discussion anymore. I have to just watch from the sidelines as I personally want my healers to....heal rather then spam DPS. So by that logic I wouldn't want them being frustrated by saying "UGH...my dps rotation is broken because I have to heal your stupid face!".... "SHAME on you dumb tank for getting hit by that tank buster!"...."UGH healing is broken because I can't DPS like....a DPS....i'm forced to heal...why did I pick up a healer?"

Again I just have to stand by and shrug while healers argue about getting the two lowest parses in a raid..... right......

[WaxSw]

I can't get behind the healer discussion anymore. I have to just watch from the sidelines as I personally want my healers to....heal rather then spam DPS. So by that logic I wouldn't want them being frustrated by saying "UGH...my dps rotation is broken because I have to heal your stupid face!".... "SHAME on you dumb tank for getting hit by that tank buster!"...."UGH healing is broken because I can't DPS like....a DPS....i'm forced to heal...why did I pick up a healer?"

Again I just have to stand by and shrug while healers argue about getting the two lowest parses in a raid..... right......

The problem is...THERE IS NOTHING TO HEAL. Dungeons are consistently cleared without healers because tank mitigation and healing is busted, extremes have been cleared without healers and even the 2 first floors of savage have seen no healer runs, ucob has been cleared without healers and there are 1 heal clears of all the ultimates, when there heal requirements are that low the whole "healers should heal" point doesn't work anymore (and has never to anyone half decent at it tbh).

All the arguments you say are dismantled by previous healer iterations and current tanks in fact, you have classes that can heal while having multiple ofensive actions that do not get in the way of healing, we have gauges that allow to save resources and delay the execution of actions and charges that work the same, the "UGH...my dps rotation is broken because..." woudn't happen, in fact even current healers are a proof that, good healers dont use anything but ogcd heals and all the gcds are their nuke and their dot, some of those casts could be switched for other actions and the healing side woudn't be affected in the slightest.

Besides on a side note if you've only cleared this tier and looking at parses not even fully cleared I don't think you're in a position to judge if the tier is good or not as you haven't experienced all the content and don't have anything to compare it against.

[Sqwall]

The problem is...THERE IS NOTHING TO HEAL. Dungeons are consistently cleared without healers because tank mitigation and healing is busted, extremes have been cleared without healers and even the 2 first floors of savage have seen no healer runs, ucob has been cleared without healers and there are 1 heal clears of all the ultimates, when there heal requirements are that low the whole "healers should heal" point doesn't work anymore (and has never to anyone half decent at it tbh).

Besides on a side note if you've only cleared this tier and looking at parses not even fully cleared I don't think you're in a position to judge if the tier is good or not as you haven't experienced all the content and don't have anything to compare it against.

Had to trim your post.

Interesting argument. Shall I pull multiple threads that I have started about how tanks need to take MORE damage, and healers need to SWEAT more instead of crying about their DPS "rotation" is boring. I am completely in the camp of restore the holy trinity style gameplay. I mentioned this ALLL the way back when shadowbringers launched. When you start to see tank only runs, 1 healer runs, and no healer dungeon runs I was thinking...huh...this COMPLETELY invalidates healers by a HUGE degree, this can be fixed by making a party just take....I don't know...more damage they can't fix without 1-2 healers?

Nope....now here we are....the game is primarily hyper focused on DPS first...and 2nd, and 3rd, and 4th. Kill the boss before enrage...that's all that matters. Why bring a healer when you can bring a SAM or a MNK. Just kill it before you need heals...that's the key right?

Wrong....if I had it my way.... I would make healers cry....make them scream to the heavens about DPS standing in the fire. Then watch as they refuse to heal people standing in fire.... nature over nurture. Nature always wins. DPS is pointless on a healer anyway...sure it all adds up...but to me...it's superficial...a placebo effect. Add more moments that REQURE healers to heal and healers would NEVER push those dps buttons.

Those battle hardened healers that don't crumble under a constant barrage of damage...those are the ones I want in a party...those are the healers I want when the chips are down. Enrage be damned if a good healer can be that clutch moment we need.

Not even going to dignify response about what I can or can't be commenting on with not having this current tier cleared. I don't hold peoples FFLOGS against them when trying to prove a point, which that I struck a nerve for some if you have to run to FFLOGS to prove a point that you don't like hearing. I'm not recruiting anyone on my side to defend my points, look at my FFLOGS....I don't care....I'm still proud of what my static has accomplished. Parse be damned....I literally don't care.

[Manofpassion]

Had to trim your post.

Interesting argument. Shall I pull multiple threads that I have started about how tanks need to take MORE damage, and healers need to SWEAT more instead of crying about their DPS "rotation" is boring. I am completely in the camp of restore the holy trinity style gameplay. I mentioned this ALLL the way back when shadowbringers launched. When you start to see tank only runs, 1 healer runs, and no healer dungeon runs I was thinking...huh...this COMPLETELY invalidates healers by a HUGE degree, this can be fixed by making a party just take....I don't know...more damage they can't fix without 1-2 healers?

Nope....now here we are....the game is primarily hyper focused on DPS first...and 2nd, and 3rd, and 4th. Kill the boss before enrage...that's all that matters. Why bring a healer when you can bring a SAM or a MNK. Just kill it before you need heals...that's the key right?

Wrong....if I had it my way.... I would make healers cry....make them scream to the heavens about DPS standing in the fire. Then watch as they refuse to heal people standing in fire.... nature over nurture. Nature always wins. DPS is pointless on a healer anyway...sure it all adds up...but to me...it's superficial...a placebo effect. Add more moments that REQURE healers to heal and healers would NEVER push those dps buttons.

Those battle hardened healers that don't crumble under a constant barrage of damage...those are the ones I want in a party...those are the healers I want when the chips are down. Enrage be damned if a good healer can be that clutch moment we need.

Not even going to dignify response about what I can or can't be commenting on with not having this current tier cleared. I don't hold peoples FFLOGS against them when trying to prove a point, which that I struck a nerve for some if you have to run to FFLOGS to prove a point that you don't like hearing. I'm not recruiting anyone on my side to defend my points, look at my FFLOGS....I don't care....I'm still proud of what my static has accomplished. Parse be damned....I literally don't care.

No offense, but I think you're a bit off your rocker mate. I really don't see how nature over nurture has anything to do with healer design. It seems like you're just getting off to how you want healers to cry and scream kek

Think you just need a subby healslut instead of whatever this is

[WaxSw]

snip

The problem with high damage is:
-The game is heavily scripted, which means there will always be damage predictable and as such healers will be able to optimize its heals and get downtime
-The healing kit is not deep either, most of it is "heal with X potency" with barely any interactions
-The game would have to be redesigned entirely to allow that high damage
-Would make healing harder to get into as this would have to be carried all the way from high end to story mode, increasing the skill floor

Healers not dpsing/providing offensive support is simply something that does not work either, even the field of medicine is centered about treating the symptoms and eliminating the cause of those symptoms, the former alone is not sufficient because that is not efficient. On top of that healing is binary, contrary to dps there is a point where more healing simply isn't providing value and that's why good healers, no matter where, deal damage/provide value to their team and why those actions are so important.

Im not trying to prove a point with the logs thing, I just checked out of curiosity when you mentioned savage and I'm not shaming you on anything. I'm just saying that it would be best if you experience the whole tier before judging it and if you're gonna say you don't understand the complaints of the OP maybe it would be wise to experience what older tiers gave too to have something to compare them with, one can't see a decline in quality with only one reference.

[SieyaM]

Had to trim your post.

Interesting argument. Shall I pull multiple threads that I have started about how tanks need to take MORE damage, and healers need to SWEAT more instead of crying about their DPS "rotation" is boring. I am completely in the camp of restore the holy trinity style gameplay. I mentioned this ALLL the way back when shadowbringers launched. When you start to see tank only runs, 1 healer runs, and no healer dungeon runs I was thinking...huh...this COMPLETELY invalidates healers by a HUGE degree, this can be fixed by making a party just take....I don't know...more damage they can't fix without 1-2 healers?

Nope....now here we are....the game is primarily hyper focused on DPS first...and 2nd, and 3rd, and 4th. Kill the boss before enrage...that's all that matters. Why bring a healer when you can bring a SAM or a MNK. Just kill it before you need heals...that's the key right?

Wrong....if I had it my way.... I would make healers cry....make them scream to the heavens about DPS standing in the fire. Then watch as they refuse to heal people standing in fire.... nature over nurture. Nature always wins. DPS is pointless on a healer anyway...sure it all adds up...but to me...it's superficial...a placebo effect. Add more moments that REQURE healers to heal and healers would NEVER push those dps buttons.

Those battle hardened healers that don't crumble under a constant barrage of damage...those are the ones I want in a party...those are the healers I want when the chips are down. Enrage be damned if a good healer can be that clutch moment we need.

Not even going to dignify response about what I can or can't be commenting on with not having this current tier cleared. I don't hold peoples FFLOGS against them when trying to prove a point, which that I struck a nerve for some if you have to run to FFLOGS to prove a point that you don't like hearing. I'm not recruiting anyone on my side to defend my points, look at my FFLOGS....I don't care....I'm still proud of what my static has accomplished. Parse be damned....I literally don't care.

Simply increasing the damage to an amount that requires constant healing and turns healers into cure bots instead of glare bots, it does not solve the source of the issue. Healers already use most of the oGCDs in the current content and so adding more damage means you're casting a bunch of cures or benefics instead of glare or malefic, but it does not make them anymore engaging to play. Healer kits are just poorly designed, nearly none of the abilities work together or seem to be designed with the intention of being used together. The only two skills I can think of that actually work as part of a kit are Horoscope and Planery, they work to actually increase healing and do something with your existing kit, everything else just kind of is a stand alone skill.

[Larirawiel]

I can't get behind the healer discussion anymore. I have to just watch from the sidelines as I personally want my healers to....heal rather then spam DPS. So by that logic I wouldn't want them being frustrated by saying "UGH...my dps rotation is broken because I have to heal your stupid face!".... "SHAME on you dumb tank for getting hit by that tank buster!"...."UGH healing is broken because I can't DPS like....a DPS....i'm forced to heal...why did I pick up a healer?"

Again I just have to stand by and shrug while healers argue about getting the two lowest parses in a raid..... right......

The problem is, the game is extremly DPS centric. That is the reason why many players are so unhappy. If someone starts to play a healer then he does not expect making DPS 90% of the time. If i want to DPS then i play a real DPS job and not a crippled one. There are two solution for this problem: make the game way less DPS centric. Or redesign the healer jobs so, that making DPS as a healer is not so braindead boring.


Cheers