What is going on with Square Enix and the 14 team?

[BrokentoothMarch]

That's an interesting take on the story I have not really seen expressed so far. I ending up going from really disliking her at the start to you-know-who being my favourites character in the game. I can totally see what you mean though, and thinking about it, it would have been much better if one or two of the Scions actually saw it that way too... everyone accepts Hydaelyn's actions with conveniently little fuss.

I actually started liking her and that began to decay quickly. I also felt a bit dismissed when doubt over her intent began to brew among the Scions in ShB as we were primed to believe that this is more a duality rather than Good v Evil, hence why the Light was the villain in that story, and then that was all ignored come EW. Indeed, I have immense qualms over the direction of the story, but realistically all I needed was for some questioning or "Hey, uh. Wasn't it a bit messed up when you did this?"/"Can you please justify why it's okay you did this but not when they do it?" to her. It otherwise felt too saccharine and as if at least my character, which they sometimes try to flavor as having my own will, had, well, no will beyond the desires of the Crystal.

Though I'll mute that part of myself for now. I can pull out an entire 'Charlie' powerpoint on my issues with the lore and Hydaelyn specifically. Ultimately, if I don't like the story, I can simply pass on it and I'm not exactly going out of my way to tell others they're not allowed to enjoy the story. I'm mostly irritated with the more gameplay aspects like Viera/Hrothgar still effectively being limited races or the housing fiasco which is a bit... unacceptable for any development team worth their salt, I feel? And the terribly outdated character creation, but now I'm getting greedy.

[Theodric]

I actually started liking her and that began to decay quickly. I also felt a bit dismissed when doubt over her intent began to brew among the Scions in ShB as we were primed to believe that this is more a duality rather than Good v Evil, hence why the Light was the villain in that story. Indeed, I have immense qualms over the direction of the story, but realistically all I needed was for some questioning or "Hey, uh. Wasn't it a bit messed up when you did this?"/"Can you please justify why it's okay you did this but not when they do it?" to her. It otherwise felt too saccharine and as if at least my character, which they sometimes try to flavor as having my own will, had, well, no will beyond the desires of the Crystal.

Though I'll mute that part of myself for now. I can pull out an entire 'Charlie' powerpoint on my issues with the lore and Hydaelyn specifically. Ultimately, if I don't like the story, I can simply pass on it and I'm not exactly going out of my way to tell others they're not allowed to enjoy the story. I'm mostly irritated with the more gameplay aspects like Viera/Hrothgar still effectively being limited races or the housing fiasco which is a bit... unacceptable for any development team worth their salt, I feel?

As an aside, you're far from alone in your dislike of how certain story elements were handled:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...y-in-Endwalker

The thread is a good...388 pages long but I just wanted to link it so show that you're not isolated in your viewpoints and criticism.

[anhaato]

I actually started liking her and that began to decay quickly. I also felt a bit dismissed when doubt over her intent began to brew among the Scions in ShB as we were primed to believe that this is more a duality rather than Good v Evil, hence why the Light was the villain in that story. Indeed, I have immense qualms over the direction of the story, but realistically all I needed was for some questioning or "Hey, uh. Wasn't it a bit messed up when you did this?"/"Can you please justify why it's okay you did this but not when they do it?" to her. It otherwise felt too saccharine and as if at least my character, which they sometimes try to flavor as having my own will, had, well, no will beyond the desires of the Crystal.

Though I'll mute that part of myself for now. I can pull out an entire 'Charlie' powerpoint on my issues with the lore and Hydaelyn specifically. Ultimately, if I don't like the story, I can simply pass on it and I'm not exactly going out of my way to tell others they're not allowed to enjoy the story. I'm mostly irritated with the more gameplay aspects like Viera/Hrothgar still effectively being limited races or the housing fiasco which is a bit... unacceptable for any development team worth their salt, I feel? And the terribly outdated character creation, but now I'm getting greedy.

No, no, you're right. After we spent last expansion going over why rejoinings are bad, she gets treated as a hero for doing something with the same effects as that; all souls were preserved, but the lives and cultures of the people those souls were part of were reduced to nothing. It was a VERY tone-deaf message, no matter how hard they tried to justify it with ancients were actually le bad or the world was gonna die anyway even though Zodiark was strong enough to protect the star even after being sundered.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I actually started liking her and that began to decay quickly. I also felt a bit dismissed when doubt over her intent began to brew among the Scions in ShB as we were primed to believe that this is more a duality rather than Good v Evil, hence why the Light was the villain in that story, and then that was all ignored come EW. Indeed, I have immense qualms over the direction of the story, but realistically all I needed was for some questioning or "Hey, uh. Wasn't it a bit messed up when you did this?"/"Can you please justify why it's okay you did this but not when they do it?" to her. It otherwise felt too saccharine and as if at least my character, which they sometimes try to flavor as having my own will, had, well, no will beyond the desires of the Crystal.

Though I'll mute that part of myself for now. I can pull out an entire 'Charlie' powerpoint on my issues with the lore and Hydaelyn specifically. Ultimately, if I don't like the story, I can simply pass on it and I'm not exactly going out of my way to tell others they're not allowed to enjoy the story. I'm mostly irritated with the more gameplay aspects like Viera/Hrothgar still effectively being limited races or the housing fiasco which is a bit... unacceptable for any development team worth their salt, I feel? And the terribly outdated character creation, but now I'm getting greedy.

The Light was never the villain. It was just a mess in the natural order of the elements and a concept taken straight out from og FFIII. Just like how the Ascians majorly screwed up the 13th shard, with tipping the balance to favor shadow which is what caused the entirety of the shard to be destroyed. Even Urianger explained this when we meet up with him in Ill Mheg in ShB. The story was never developing the idea that the Light was actually "evil".

[Hurlstone]

I actually started liking her and that began to decay quickly...

That is a good point. One of the reasons why Shadowbringers is my favourites expansion was how it played with a lot of the tropes that had been in the game/FF in interesting ways. From the more overt examples, such as Light being portrayed as the negative element and the revelations about Hydaelyn/Zodiak, to things like the Scions (Y'shtola taking up black magic over white, Thancred going from being a sneak rogue to upfront protector) and the notion of Hope being used as a weapon against us. EW did fall back on more traditional tropes for sure, though I did feel it still played around with somethings and gave us some nice twists. Then again, I openly admit I am far to optimistic about storytelling aspects then a lot of people!

I do agree about how the WoL is portrayed. They have gotten better at giving us the chance to craft their personality a bit more outside of stoic nodding, but ultimately we can do little but follow the lines we are given. Its a shame as I always hoped they would eventually let us make more meaningful choices in the story.

I also was never much of a character hater, I dont get too attached to a particular character and try not to see the "black" and "white" in the things they do...

Yeah, SB hads its flaws for sure but there is so many good things that go overlooked I feel. The characters in particular are wonderfully explored. I simp for Aymeric, but Hien really steals the show. Fordola and Yotsuyu where really interestingly written villians too. I agree about Lyse too. Travelling around the Far East with her and Alisea was a great joy and I liked seeing her step up to the challenges.

Though being fair Zodiark would eventually need everyone to be sacrificed and thus it'd be pointless anyways. I may not like what Hyd did but I can for sure say she at least gave us a chance for life to continue and florish. I never felt the game painted her as perfect oe egotistical. She herself says she knows she caused alot of pain and suffering and she doesn't take joy in that fact. She also doesn't offer pushback if you question her on the boat. Idk...I think they did well with her (and I REALLY did not like her at 1st)

I more or less completely agree. I went into Endwalker sure she would be the ‘big bad’ and did flick her the finger on the boat, but the expansion completely changed how I view her. Hydalyn herself understands how bad what she did was, but in their eyes there really was no other choice. I felt the cut scene with her after we leave Elpis really showed that well, and I adore her ‘… And amongst deepest despair, light everlasting’ quote. That was when she became my favorite.

I can see why people disliked her actions, and I kinda wish more NPCs took issue with it too.

Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread with lore!