What is going on with Square Enix and the 14 team?

[IdowhatIwant]

So to me the issue isn't healers in that regard. It's Tanks. Again I say that when talking about that specific issue not playing the healer itself.

The reality is though that so long as xiv has such a wide and diverse playerbase I don't think they will crank things up. They want to appeal to more people and easier content does that. Savage and Ultimates are there for folks who want more. I'm hoping those new Criterion Dungeons is part of that as well. Gives those wanting challenge from dungeons something too.
I just can't subscribe to the notion I see often that the devs don't care. They're far from perfect but it's not as though they don't try. And just to be clear I'm not saying you're saying that last bit. Just speaking generally

Ultimates sure, savage not really. And it is actually an issue with healers, but adding so much healing onto tanks on top of there already high mitigation abilities does not make it any better on healers. It's not one thing fixes all its multiple issues that have to be address. Giving tanks so much healing potential was the wrong direction for the game.

[Nethereal]

Ultimates sure, savage not really. And it is actually an issue with healers, but adding so much healing onto tanks on top of there already high mitigation abilities does not make it any better on healers. It's not one thing fixes all its multiple issues that have to be address. Giving tanks so much healing potential was the wrong direction for the game.

It is fun to do dungeons on tanks now though and being able to wall2wall without caring what your healer thinks about it or worrying if they can handle it. Since you don't need them.

[Teno]

So to me the issue isn't healers in that regard. It's Tanks. Again I say that when talking about that specific issue not playing the healer itself.

The reality is though that so long as xiv has such a wide and diverse playerbase I don't think they will crank things up. They want to appeal to more people and easier content does that. Savage and Ultimates are there for folks who want more. I'm hoping those new Criterion Dungeons is part of that as well. Gives those wanting challenge from dungeons something too.
I just can't subscribe to the notion I see often that the devs don't care. They're far from perfect but it's not as though they don't try. And just to be clear I'm not saying you're saying that last bit. Just speaking generally

With healers no they don't really try, they just remove and add superfluous oGCDs.

[IkaraGreydancer]

Why do you think this is a tank issue and not a healer issue? There are 8 health bars in all relevant content, 2 of those are tanks, maybe 1.

You're exactly right they won't crank things up which is specifically why this isn't a tank issue they will never introduce spike damage because healing crits is not fun nor engaging and is frustrating in general.
Giving healers an engaging way to deal damage would not make healing any more 'difficult' than it already is either.

Savage and Ultimate are exactly the same as all the other content, saying do ultimate does not solve anything for healer engagement.

You spend 80% dealing damage and 20% healing in every fight across the board, do you dispute this?

I don't dispute it I'm just saying it's not my experience (which is a wrong thing to say apparently). Yo me I've always said to play another game that offers what you want. Don't stick around for what isn't good to you. And NO that's not the same as "shut up and leave" as some like to paint it.

[Nethereal]

I don't dispute it I'm just saying it's not my experience (which is a wrong thing to say apparently). Yo me I've always said to play another game that offers what you want. Don't stick around for what isn't good to you. And NO that's not the same as "shut up and leave" as some like to paint it.

I have no problem that not being your experience.
Since you don't dispute the fact healers spend 80% of the time dealing damage then you must know for that to not be your experience it's because of outside factors not innately tied to the healer class.

Lets take this to its logical conclusion however. In a vacuum where everyone is doing everything correctly and no one is taking any avoidable damage as most healers you spend 80% of your time pressing 2 buttons.
The above is not as far fetched as most detractors of healer criticism think it is.

If the only way for people to spend more than 20% of the time healing is for the players surrounding the healer to be bad or to fail mechanics is that not a design flaw?
If the further you master a class the less fun it becomes is that not a design flaw?

Do you not see the issue with this? Or is it because you don't experience this now or may never it's a non issue to you?

Is it because you don't want healer to change, you don't want your healer experience to change, that you stand in the way of progress?

I in fact do play other games to get my healer fix.

[IkaraGreydancer]

I have no problem that not being your experience. Since you don't dispute the fact healers spend 80% of the time dealing damage then you must know for that to not be your experience it's because of outside factors not innately tied to the healer class.

Lets take this to its logical conclusion however. In a vacuum where everyone is doing everything correctly and no one is taking any avoidable damage as most healers you spend 80% of your time pressing 2 buttons.
The above is not an far fetched as most detractors of healer criticism think it is.

If the only way for people to spend more than 20% of the time healing is for the players surrounding the healer to be bad or to fail mechanics is that not a design flaw?
If the further the master you class the less fun it becomes is that not a design flaw?

Do you not see the issue with this? Or is it because you don't experience this now or may never it's a non issue to you?

Is it because you don't want healer to change, you don't want your healer experience to change, that you stand in the way of progress?

I in fact do play other games to get my healer fix.

I've never once said there doesn't need to be any change in fact I've said the opposite. I only said I have a difference experience than others. Hell one of the things I miss is Ast from SB. Next best thing for me is current day Sage. I do miss when Sch was more than a ground palmer.

If they gave healers more to do I'd be all for it. I'm just content as is rn. That's all. My opinions aren't standing in the way of anything. Again this isn't an "us vs them" situation

[Nethereal]

I've never once said there doesn't need to be any change in fact I've said the opposite. I only said I have a difference experience than others. Hell one of the things I miss is Ast from SB. Next best thing for me is current day Sage. I do miss when Sch was more than a ground palmer.

If they gave healers more to do I'd be all for it. I'm just content as is rn. That's all. My opinions aren't standing in the way of anything. Again this isn't an "us vs them" situation

I do indeed miss the niche situations of being able to cure 3 off the SCHs fairy.
I also play SGE exclusively for the most part now since it's the most fun/consistent healer experience imo currently. And while the lily changes to WHM are nice it's far too late to cover my eyes on that particular class.
I'm only paying my sub currently to play with my friends, currently. So I guess you could say I'm not very content at all.

You might be right, your opinions might not be standing in the way of anything but when you talk in half truths(I.E. it's a tank issue) without addressing the main issues for most people they see that as poisoning the well.

[IkaraGreydancer]

I do indeed miss the niche situations of being able to cure 3 off the SCHs fairy.
I also play SGE exclusively for the most part now since it's the most fun/consistent healer experience imo currently. And while the lily changes to WHM are nice it's far too late to cover my eyes on that particular class.
I'm only paying my sub currently to play with my friends, currently. So I guess you could say I'm not very content at all.

You might be right, your opinions might not be standing in the way of anything but when you talk in half truths(I.E. it's a tank issue) without addressing the main issues for most people they see that as poisoning the well.

Call it what you will as. To me the people not being polite and taking shots at the devs are the real ones poisoning the well. But hey, priorities

[Hyrist]

This thread is nothing new.

See, every time there's something perceived as an issue or a mistake, the same naysayers who've been touting the company's end since Legacy days take it as a sign of complete validation that everything has been horrible since (insert contrived timeline here) and that they've been right all along.

Rabble rousing hasn't changed since ARR came out and some people just feed off of it.

As has happened, many, many times before. What will happen is the issues that aren't simply opinions to the contrary to the majority of players will get addressed and any perceived uproar will die down. This will be preceived by these dramamongers as being silenced, even though it's just their threads fading to obscurity. (Seriously, I've been watching this for close to a decade now. It's tired hat.)

Housing, because of its horrid state, is an easy bully pulpit that they get to beat CBU3's head over every time it's mentioned. It's a relic from the Legacy days that, in all honesty, never should have seen the light of day, but because some of its features are beloved, and the fact that it was released, the team is unfortunately married to it rather than being able to scrap it entirely and start from scratch - which honestly would have been the best solution. Instead they're litterally throwing money (For servers) at the problem that could never keep up with this game's growing success and population.

Various job 'Issues' as described are usually points of opinion that don't carry through or when they do get addressed, get decried by the same people with the argument that they 'liked it better than before'. No look at some of the post history of these people I'm not kidding, their opinions change on a dime if their concern actually gets addressed.

Even when some ideas are eventually adapted, they're downplayed. Savage/Story split the difference between demands on more accessible or harder demand for Savage content. Upwards scaling of difficulty on both dungeons and Raids are largely ignored as "not enough" which lead to the creation of both Ultimate and Unreal. Demands for longer grind lead to Relic Grind which was decried for being a grind. Demand for more random loot lead to Diadem which was a massive failure which had to be repurposed. Attempts at both exploration like dungeons demands lead to Deep Dungeons which got decried as not relevant enough - then they came out with Eureka which was not accessible enough, then to Bozja, both of which and their more difficult 24 man both became more or less dead content.

And so on it goes.

All the while the toxicity of this place in particular just grows because those who enjoy the game, get tired of the negativity and find different venues to participate in the community. (And the naysayers say *they're* silenced.)

There is no 'years long decline' of this game or group. It's actually gotten better over the years as evidenced in both its growth and growing acclaim. Yes, there are issues that may need to be address, or ones that simply exist in the thorn in both the community's and the developer's sides for various reasons. No different than any game. This isn't an indication of an inflexible team that fails to address long issues - this can be evidenced by both the current adjustments to Dark Knight's Ivun skill (finally) and the upcoming Criterion dungeons, which aims to address long standing concerns about a more challenging low-player dungeon, which has long been touted here as an unaddressed issue (though no credit has been given for that, rather than just the complaints shifting elsewhere to try to lend credence to an imaginary downtrend.)

I mean, MSQ roulette duties. The biggest meme of any 'Trial' got fixed in astounding fashion. But no, SE's never listening.

That's all to say I give very little if any credit to threads of this vein. Is there still a mountain of work to do? Absolutely! Hold their feet to the fire - especially as we are finally seeing some long standing changes. But don't pretend that this game or its group is in some sort of downward spiral. That's disingenuous to the point of being insulting, and it doesn't aid your cause, or make this game better.

[Atelier-Bagur]

if there was a way to pin the above post for the whole forum to read, I would.

But inb4 people "silence" and saying "well...you're wrong".