What is going on with Square Enix and the 14 team?

[kpxmanifesto]

Wow, another post being sarcastic and condescending while contributing nothing to the thread. How original.

Yes, I see the irony.

No need to feed the trolls. The one you're responding to is particularly easy to tune out.

[EaraGrace]

Wow, another post being sarcastic and condescending while contributing nothing to the thread. How original.

Yes, I see the irony.

I’d love to have a another discussion on whether what Hydaelyn did was right or wrong in either the lore forum (which was made for that purpose) or in a thread made for that purpose.

Until then condescension ahoy

No need to feed the trolls. The one you're responding to is particularly easy to tune out.

Unfortunately tuning you all out would require deleting the forums in their entirety, given how loathe you all are to not swallow every discussion with this same topic.

[BrokentoothMarch]

I’d love to have a another discussion on whether what Hydaelyn did was right or wrong in either the lore forum (which was made for that purpose) or in a thread made for that purpose.

Until then condescension ahoy

Oh wow. I'm so sorry. I didn't realize someone broke into your house, put a gun to your head, and mashed your face into this thread. It must be a terrifying affair. Please hold still while I call the police so they prepare to save you with blankets and coco for the atrocious burden you're suffering for seeing a few posts you don't like in a thread you clearly didn't choose to partake in. I'll be following advice and tuning you out. You really are a special kind of useless.

I'm even the one who pushed to move on from the lore. Everyone was acting quite civil then you decided to pick a fight. And yet you want to play the martyr.

[EaraGrace]

Oh wow. I'm so sorry. I didn't realize someone broke into your house, put a gun to your head, and mashed your face into this thread. It must be a terrifying affair. Please hold still while I call the police so they prepare to save you with blankets and coco for the atrocious burden you're suffering for seeing a few posts you don't like in a thread you cllearly didn't choose to partake in. I'll be following advice and tuning you out. You really are a special kind of useless.

Even as useless as I may be I still at the very least have a unique thought every once in a while. Meanwhile these threads make the Omicron look downright creative.

I'm even the one who pushed to move on from the lore. Everyone was acting quite civil then you decided to pick a fight. And yet you want to play the martyr.

Then why are you arguing against me. We agree! Move on!

[Theodric]

Unfortunately tuning you all out would require deleting the forums in their entirety, given how loathe you all are to not swallow every discussion with this same topic.

Who would be part of this hypothetical 'all', exactly? I simply ask because it isn't the first time I've seen an insinuation of some hypothetical group existing to discuss the same topic across multiple threads.

Furthermore, just because a particular discussion may have become tiresome for you it doesn't necessarily mean that everybody else has to feel the same way - or that they're wrong or posting in bad faith for...pointing out their concerns with the quality of the writing surrounding Venat.

I also have to raise an eyebrow at anyone who frequents the lore forum taking issue with repetition when a not insignificant number of Venat enthusiasts spent years derailing threads and attacking people for liking either the Garleans or the Ascians.

I can personally attest to many attempts to simply take the 'agree to disagree' approach with various posters, yourself included. If you do not wish to engage with particular posters, then that's your right - but I must confess to not seeing much benefit in fly by comments every time someone brings up Venat and calls her out for the horrific genocide that she inflicted on so many innocents.

[EaraGrace]

Who would be part of this hypothetical 'all', exactly? I simply ask because it isn't the first time I've seen an insinuation of some hypothetical group existing to discuss the same topic across multiple threads.

The same handful people who play out these discussion is what I’m referring to. I’d even include myself.

Furthermore, just because a particular discussion may have become tiresome for you it doesn't necessarily mean that everybody else has to feel the same way - or that they're wrong or posting in bad faith for...pointing out their concerns with the quality of the writing surrounding Venat?

Then make a thread. Or use the other threads already made for that.

I also have to raise an eyebrow at anyone who frequents the lore forum taking issue with repetition when a not insignificant number of Venat enthusiasts spent years derailing threads and attacking people for liking either the Garleans or the Ascians.

If you’d like to point out a post whether I attacked someone for liking Garlemald or the Ascians then I’d be happy to discuss my personal statements.

I can personally attest to many attempts to simply take the 'agree to disagree' approach with various posters, yourself included. If you do not wish to engage with particular posters, then that's your right - but I must confess to not seeing much benefit in fly by comments every time someone brings up Venat and calls her out for the horrific genocide that she inflicted on so many innocents.

This is bait.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I've heard on several occasions that they were to be doing the third sacrifice.

One sacrifice to bring forth Zodiark
Second sacrifice is to restore 'life' to the land
The third sacrifice is to bring back those who sacrificed themselves to bring forth Zodiark.

Doesn't really matter ultimately if Zodiark himself is a bloodgod or not if the ancients fail to let go of the possibility of a paradise. I'm also pretty sure this third sacrifice was depicted in Endwalker during a flashback quest.

My guess is Hydaelyn, much like the FFXIV community with the developers saw it as a telling of things to come or a possibility of an established trend to come. (E.g. are you just going to keep sacrificing people to Zodiark in order to perpetually bring people back from the sacrifice - Bit of a catch-22 that).

There was to be a 3rd sacrifice yes, but that was it. Hythlodaeus himself tells us after they would return to their duties as stewards of the star. The cutscene in Endwalker is actually Venat’s pov which is very inconsistent with all the lore we have been told. It also doesn’t seem to mention her followers of whom yoshi confirmed she completely consumed the souls of and basically destroyed them. Her whole overall idea isn’t even so much that she has a problem with the sacrifices, so much so that she doesn’t believe her people have the power to combat meteion. This is shown in the anamnesis cutscene where she even says she doesn’t see Zodiark as a long lasting solution.

I think overall, my problem with her, is that she had the knowledge to potentially avert the calamity but she instead tries to paint the ancients as wrong for simply…being human. She then lies,manipulates, and keeps all that knowledge hidden and is praised as a hero? It just doesn’t sit well with me. Even worse is Elidibus and Zodiark, two of the people who saved both us and the entire world and even made venat’s plan succeed in the first place, are given hardly any praise whatsoever.

Wow another thread consumed by the same tired arguments. Surely this time will be different.

I dont think its at least that big of a derailment in this thread, since one of the things i brought up is peoples opinions on the story. No reason to be snarky though.

[EaraGrace]

I dont think its at least that big of a derailment in this thread, since one of the things i brought up is peoples opinions on the story. No reason to be snarky though.

Snark is all I have left for these discussions Kizuya. They are neither productive nor honest. If you want to make another thread complaining about the story then do so, but derailing you’re own thread to whine more is obnoxious.

[Atelier-Bagur]

There was to be a 3rd sacrifice yes, but that was it. Hythlodaeus himself tells us after they would return to their duties as stewards of the star. The cutscene in Endwalker is actually Venat’s pov which is very inconsistent with all the lore we have been told. It also doesn’t seem to mention her followers of whom yoshi confirmed she completely consumed the souls of and basically destroyed them. Her whole overall idea isn’t even so much that she has a problem with the sacrifices, so much so that she doesn’t believe her people have the power to combat meteion. This is shown in the anamnesis cutscene where she even says she doesn’t see Zodiark as a long lasting solution.

I think overall, my problem with her, is that she had the knowledge to potentially avert the calamity but she instead tries to paint the ancients as wrong for simply…being human. She then lies,manipulates, and keeps all that knowledge hidden and is praised as a hero? It just doesn’t sit well with me. Even worse is Elidibus and Zodiark, two of the people who saved both us and the entire world and even made venat’s plan succeed in the first place, are given hardly any praise whatsoever.

How did Elidibus and Zodiark saved us exactly? You mean when Zodiark averted the 1st Final Days? I suppose so yeah, but their long lasting solution for sacrificing and trying to salvage the old world wasnt gonna help the star lasting very long, especially when we saw the cracks of their "paradise" eventually leading to the same outcome as the people's from the 3rd area in the Dead Ends. It was a debate amongst gods pretty much and this is where whether Venat was in the right to sunder the world or not ends for me as we now have 13 shards filled with life and civilization. Elidibus and the Ascians wanted to extinguish all life from the 13 shards to try to resurrect their failed world and that to me is extremely irresponsible and unfair to the new life that now flourishes in those shards.

Even then the story later painted the unsundered Ascians in less of a negative light anyway, I mean just see how much praise we get for Emet-Selch despite the fact that he contributed to a lot of genocide with his buddies. Its easier to antagonize a group of people actively trying to kill you.

[KizuyaKatogami]

How did Elidibus and Zodiark saved us exactly? You mean when Zodiark averted the 1st Final Days? I suppose so yeah, but their long lasting solution for sacrificing and trying to salvage the old world wasnt gonna help the star lasting very long, especially when we saw the cracks of their "paradise" eventually leading to the same outcome as the people's from the 3rd area in the Dead Ends. It was a debate amongst gods pretty much and this is where whether Venat was in the right to sunder the world or not ends for me as we now have 13 shards filled with life and civilization. Elidibus and the Ascians wanted to extinguish all life from the 13 shards to try to resurrect their failed world and that to me is extremely irresponsible and unfair to the new life that now flourishes in those shards.

Even then the story later painted the unsundered Ascians in less of a negative light anyway, I mean just see how much praise we get for Emet-Selch despite the fact that he contributed to a lot of genocide with his buddies. Its easier to antagonize a group of people actively trying to kill you.

Elidibus is the one who sent us back in time in the first place. Without him Venat’s plan wouldn’t exist, hence the time travel shenanigans. Had Venat told them the truth, there is the possibility they could have averted the final days entirely. Venat even had Meteion tagged, she had her location! There isn’t anything factual stating the ancients would have been heading for the dead ends, that’s what Venat thought would happen, not what might have actually happened. Unfortunately we’ll never know because she lost hope in her people.

As for the shards, keep in mind, due to the sundering peoples lives were incredibly shortened, that’s a lot of death on hydaelyn’s hands, deaths that continue to this day. While yes, the calamities caused a lot of death again, it’s something hydaelyn’s plan relied upon. She needed emet and co to initiate said calamities otherwise who knows what would happen, she needed everything to happen exactly the way the WoL told her. That’s why a lot of people find her plan flawed.