What is going on with Square Enix and the 14 team?

[Vahlnir]

I'm really not sure where some people are getting the impression that the desire is to have the game become more like WoW when the most common criticism within this thread and various others is that many of us are former WoW players who witnessed the slow and steady decline of WoW for ourselves and are now seeing the exact same trajectory with this game. Complete with posters insisting that everything is fine, that the complaints are just 'overdramatic', that they don't see any issues and so on and so forth.

Equally, it's a balancing act in that people who have invested time and effort into a hobby they enjoy don't really want to just roll over and leave without at least having their say - which is precisely what many people are doing by coming to the forum to put forward their takes.

Yep. It's not about making this game like WoW. It's about trying to get people to realize that this game is slowly becoming the very thing we/they don't want it to be. It's not blind rage that drives us. It is a desire to see this game avoid the mistakes that WoW made. I realize that some may not understand what we're trying to do and just assume we're being salty just because we can, but it's not true. Everything we're saying comes from a place of caring.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I'm really not sure where some people are getting the impression that the desire is to have the game become more like WoW when the most common criticism within this thread and various others is that many of us are former WoW players who witnessed the slow and steady decline of WoW for ourselves and are now seeing the exact same trajectory with this game. Complete with posters insisting that everything is fine, that the complaints are just 'overdramatic', that they don't see any issues and so on and so forth.

Equally, it's a balancing act in that people who have invested time and effort into a hobby they enjoy don't really want to just roll over and leave without at least having their say - which is precisely what many people are doing by coming to the forum to put forward their takes.

Yeah I was very much being a crapper with what I said to you earlier lol but this one is where I agree. Its very easy to see the looming threat of FFXIV eventually falling into a state beyond repair ala WoW. And I think whats eating a lot of people with this is the fact FFXIV already went through a big crisis before with 1.0 unlike WoW where they generally started off extremely well. So there's a lot of loyalty and faith put into this game because the current devs managed to salvage the project which is where they earned a lot of their goodwill. But this is why its important to encourage and keep pushing feedback. You cant pretend that this game is perfect now because its totally not. Everyone cares, and I wish there were dev representatives communicating with the playerbase more frequently here because otherwise most of these complaints stem from us not knowing whether their voices are being heard or not.

[Ranhansha]

This started back in Stormblood and intensified in ShB.
Glad to see patience is running low on Yoshi-P and the team. Not because I hate the man, quite the opposite, but because we've seen some of their shameless lies and when some of us have told everyone, we've been treated like the worst blasphemous sinners. I want this game to thrive and to shine above the rest and it's so sad to see they just refuse to fix their mistakes and treat people as if they were stupid. My only hope is to think that they can't do anything about it because S-E is keeping the resources from them, but I guess that is just copium. After all, this is the team that managed to pull the end of 1.0 and ARR at the same time, only larger and more experienced.

And, oh God, I absolutely despise the cash shop! There, had to say it. Every new cool mount goes there while we get absolute garbage for events. Could we get those from... idk ingame events??? So they are not the absurd content they are now? I don't want a reskinned egg emote which is already 4 times in the game. Or dog earrings which are barely noticeable that are supposed to be the highlight of the event designed for content drought yet we somehow got between patches? Nah, 16 euros for a cool mount after 4 months of content drought and dead cities is the way to go. No problem here!

[BrokentoothMarch]

That's an interesting take on the story I have not really seen expressed so far. I ending up going from really disliking her at the start to you-know-who being my favourites character in the game. I can totally see what you mean though, and thinking about it, it would have been much better if one or two of the Scions actually saw it that way too... everyone accepts Hydaelyn's actions with conveniently little fuss.

I actually started liking her and that began to decay quickly. I also felt a bit dismissed when doubt over her intent began to brew among the Scions in ShB as we were primed to believe that this is more a duality rather than Good v Evil, hence why the Light was the villain in that story, and then that was all ignored come EW. Indeed, I have immense qualms over the direction of the story, but realistically all I needed was for some questioning or "Hey, uh. Wasn't it a bit messed up when you did this?"/"Can you please justify why it's okay you did this but not when they do it?" to her. It otherwise felt too saccharine and as if at least my character, which they sometimes try to flavor as having my own will, had, well, no will beyond the desires of the Crystal.

Though I'll mute that part of myself for now. I can pull out an entire 'Charlie' powerpoint on my issues with the lore and Hydaelyn specifically. Ultimately, if I don't like the story, I can simply pass on it and I'm not exactly going out of my way to tell others they're not allowed to enjoy the story. I'm mostly irritated with the more gameplay aspects like Viera/Hrothgar still effectively being limited races or the housing fiasco which is a bit... unacceptable for any development team worth their salt, I feel? And the terribly outdated character creation, but now I'm getting greedy.

[Theodric]

I actually started liking her and that began to decay quickly. I also felt a bit dismissed when doubt over her intent began to brew among the Scions in ShB as we were primed to believe that this is more a duality rather than Good v Evil, hence why the Light was the villain in that story. Indeed, I have immense qualms over the direction of the story, but realistically all I needed was for some questioning or "Hey, uh. Wasn't it a bit messed up when you did this?"/"Can you please justify why it's okay you did this but not when they do it?" to her. It otherwise felt too saccharine and as if at least my character, which they sometimes try to flavor as having my own will, had, well, no will beyond the desires of the Crystal.

Though I'll mute that part of myself for now. I can pull out an entire 'Charlie' powerpoint on my issues with the lore and Hydaelyn specifically. Ultimately, if I don't like the story, I can simply pass on it and I'm not exactly going out of my way to tell others they're not allowed to enjoy the story. I'm mostly irritated with the more gameplay aspects like Viera/Hrothgar still effectively being limited races or the housing fiasco which is a bit... unacceptable for any development team worth their salt, I feel?

As an aside, you're far from alone in your dislike of how certain story elements were handled:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...y-in-Endwalker

The thread is a good...388 pages long but I just wanted to link it so show that you're not isolated in your viewpoints and criticism.

[anhaato]

I actually started liking her and that began to decay quickly. I also felt a bit dismissed when doubt over her intent began to brew among the Scions in ShB as we were primed to believe that this is more a duality rather than Good v Evil, hence why the Light was the villain in that story. Indeed, I have immense qualms over the direction of the story, but realistically all I needed was for some questioning or "Hey, uh. Wasn't it a bit messed up when you did this?"/"Can you please justify why it's okay you did this but not when they do it?" to her. It otherwise felt too saccharine and as if at least my character, which they sometimes try to flavor as having my own will, had, well, no will beyond the desires of the Crystal.

Though I'll mute that part of myself for now. I can pull out an entire 'Charlie' powerpoint on my issues with the lore and Hydaelyn specifically. Ultimately, if I don't like the story, I can simply pass on it and I'm not exactly going out of my way to tell others they're not allowed to enjoy the story. I'm mostly irritated with the more gameplay aspects like Viera/Hrothgar still effectively being limited races or the housing fiasco which is a bit... unacceptable for any development team worth their salt, I feel? And the terribly outdated character creation, but now I'm getting greedy.

No, no, you're right. After we spent last expansion going over why rejoinings are bad, she gets treated as a hero for doing something with the same effects as that; all souls were preserved, but the lives and cultures of the people those souls were part of were reduced to nothing. It was a VERY tone-deaf message, no matter how hard they tried to justify it with ancients were actually le bad or the world was gonna die anyway even though Zodiark was strong enough to protect the star even after being sundered.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I actually started liking her and that began to decay quickly. I also felt a bit dismissed when doubt over her intent began to brew among the Scions in ShB as we were primed to believe that this is more a duality rather than Good v Evil, hence why the Light was the villain in that story, and then that was all ignored come EW. Indeed, I have immense qualms over the direction of the story, but realistically all I needed was for some questioning or "Hey, uh. Wasn't it a bit messed up when you did this?"/"Can you please justify why it's okay you did this but not when they do it?" to her. It otherwise felt too saccharine and as if at least my character, which they sometimes try to flavor as having my own will, had, well, no will beyond the desires of the Crystal.

Though I'll mute that part of myself for now. I can pull out an entire 'Charlie' powerpoint on my issues with the lore and Hydaelyn specifically. Ultimately, if I don't like the story, I can simply pass on it and I'm not exactly going out of my way to tell others they're not allowed to enjoy the story. I'm mostly irritated with the more gameplay aspects like Viera/Hrothgar still effectively being limited races or the housing fiasco which is a bit... unacceptable for any development team worth their salt, I feel? And the terribly outdated character creation, but now I'm getting greedy.

The Light was never the villain. It was just a mess in the natural order of the elements and a concept taken straight out from og FFIII. Just like how the Ascians majorly screwed up the 13th shard, with tipping the balance to favor shadow which is what caused the entirety of the shard to be destroyed. Even Urianger explained this when we meet up with him in Ill Mheg in ShB. The story was never developing the idea that the Light was actually "evil".

[Hurlstone]

I actually started liking her and that began to decay quickly...

That is a good point. One of the reasons why Shadowbringers is my favourites expansion was how it played with a lot of the tropes that had been in the game/FF in interesting ways. From the more overt examples, such as Light being portrayed as the negative element and the revelations about Hydaelyn/Zodiak, to things like the Scions (Y'shtola taking up black magic over white, Thancred going from being a sneak rogue to upfront protector) and the notion of Hope being used as a weapon against us. EW did fall back on more traditional tropes for sure, though I did feel it still played around with somethings and gave us some nice twists. Then again, I openly admit I am far to optimistic about storytelling aspects then a lot of people!

I do agree about how the WoL is portrayed. They have gotten better at giving us the chance to craft their personality a bit more outside of stoic nodding, but ultimately we can do little but follow the lines we are given. Its a shame as I always hoped they would eventually let us make more meaningful choices in the story.

I also was never much of a character hater, I dont get too attached to a particular character and try not to see the "black" and "white" in the things they do...

Yeah, SB hads its flaws for sure but there is so many good things that go overlooked I feel. The characters in particular are wonderfully explored. I simp for Aymeric, but Hien really steals the show. Fordola and Yotsuyu where really interestingly written villians too. I agree about Lyse too. Travelling around the Far East with her and Alisea was a great joy and I liked seeing her step up to the challenges.

Though being fair Zodiark would eventually need everyone to be sacrificed and thus it'd be pointless anyways. I may not like what Hyd did but I can for sure say she at least gave us a chance for life to continue and florish. I never felt the game painted her as perfect oe egotistical. She herself says she knows she caused alot of pain and suffering and she doesn't take joy in that fact. She also doesn't offer pushback if you question her on the boat. Idk...I think they did well with her (and I REALLY did not like her at 1st)

I more or less completely agree. I went into Endwalker sure she would be the ‘big bad’ and did flick her the finger on the boat, but the expansion completely changed how I view her. Hydalyn herself understands how bad what she did was, but in their eyes there really was no other choice. I felt the cut scene with her after we leave Elpis really showed that well, and I adore her ‘… And amongst deepest despair, light everlasting’ quote. That was when she became my favorite.

I can see why people disliked her actions, and I kinda wish more NPCs took issue with it too.

Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread with lore!

[Jin-]

I don't think it's just Square. It's gaming business in general. When something is small it is usually well liked and has loyal fanbase and development mirrors that. Over time when next installments are released and published that care and love is slowly disappearing and main focus moves to mass appeal (remember, quantity cannot co-exist with quality), like here happened during ShB and EW was the final nail. Many of us has seen this so many times over and over. We aren't complaining because we dislike the game, we are complaining because we care and love the game.

[IkaraGreydancer]

No, no, you're right. After we spent last expansion going over why rejoinings are bad, she gets treated as a hero for doing something with the same effects as that; all souls were preserved, but the lives and cultures of the people those souls were part of were reduced to nothing. It was a VERY tone-deaf message, no matter how hard they tried to justify it with ancients were actually le bad or the world was gonna die anyway even though Zodiark was strong enough to protect the star even after being sundered.

Though being fair Zodiark would eventually need everyone to be sacrificed and thus it'd be pointless anyways. I may not like what Hyd did but I can for sure say she at least gave us a chance for life to continue and florish. I never felt the game painted her as perfect oe egotistical. She herself says she knows she caused alot of pain and suffering and she doesn't take joy in that fact. She also doesn't offer pushback if you question her on the boat. Idk...I think they did well with her (and I REALLY did not like her at 1st)