Auto-attack

[Linnear]

Speaking of Rift and Aion:

Auto attack in Rift and Aion is worthless. It just doesn't do anything. Everyone's too busy spamming their other skills.

What I don't get, is that in Rift and Aion, people spam two or three skills over and over (Aion better than Rift, since at least it's not just "combo builder skill > combo builder skill > finisher"). But when they're pressing the exact same number of buttons in this game, it's unacceptable.

It just doesn't make sense. I think it's more to do with people's psychological needs than anything else. It's that, "if it's against the norm, it's bad" sort of thinking. Because they are so ingrained with the idea that AA is necessary (afterall, almost every other MMO has it), they just automatically assume it's needed in this (even though it's worthless in almost every other MMO).

Did you miss all of my previous posts? it has nothing to do with ingrain ideas, there is a fair amount of game mechanics that AA allows. Granted some posters just want AA due to habbit, but claiming that that is the ONLY reason people want AA is false.

[Betelgeuzah]

I have seen the evolution of VOIP used for games what I see right now is a dichotomy in most games which splits up the players in thoes that do and thoes that don't

I think the threshold to use voice chat instead of normal chat is a bit higher, especially if you are unsure about your English speaking skills. But the benefits are clear, so it's a small prize to pay in my opinion. And of course nobody would be forced to use it even if it were a bit like a requirement for some things.

Like I said before, what is wrong with automating a portion of the battle which is less enjoyable?

Why do 20 things when you only need 12?

Instead of making the portion of the battle which is less enjoyable... more enjoyable? Instead of reducing "things" from 20 to 12 because you only need 12... why not make it so you need all 20 "things"? It is all backwards.

I think it is quite a cheap way to fix the issue. It is not only about ADD kids either, the gamers these days are probably in their 20's or even 30's and they would most likely play this kind of game for "ADD kids" rather than a game where battles are more automated. Why is this kind of game somehow "inferior" that you need to use an insulting term like that? I don't think most people would agree with that.

Remember WoW also has an AA and still allows for 30 ish commands a min, AA does not mean you need an automated battle system.

Yes... and if the end result is still 30ish commands a minute with or without AA, the change is like turning the game from green to red. Except every other company has a red game so they will have a lot more competition to deal with.

AA doesn't mean simplified battle or even more automated battle or fewer button input

But for this game, it does. That's what ultimately should matter the most.. And if they change the game even more, so that AA works like in other games, and the end result is the same as if they had just improved on the existing feature.. it's pretty much a waste of resources.

I don't think XIV can compete with WoW, or EQ2 simply becuase the people who like that style of gameplay are going to stick with thoes games in the long run.

XIV doesn't really have that different gameplay from these games, and SE seems to be taking it toward them even more. I don't think SE should compete with them, but unfortunately I doubt the game is different enough that it would get the privilege of not competing for the same audience.

Button mashing does not mean strategy or "thoughtful" gameplay goes out of the window. The gameplay SE has provided in XIV does not really work well for other kind of gameplay than what MMO's offer. They haven't really shown any indication that they would try to do anything differently with the changes so far either- in fact it seems Yoshida is not really the type that tries out new ideas, but goes with the existing, proven to work systems. I mean, we can hope for this to not be the case but so far there really isn't anything that would make the game stand out.

(AA bulid or focus on abilities, Haste>str or w/e depending on what your fighting, Amnesia mobs or high defence mobs, etc)

You could already do everything listed here if S-E released stats to modify these values (yes, Haste and stamina can work together. Yes, weapon speed and stamina can exist together).

just tell me why AA is bad for FF?

It is a 'cheap' and lackluster solution to fix the problems of the game. You could fix the game better if you took those 5 things and implemented them, instead of one so-so feature with a noticeable downside to it (and you would still have to implement few of those 5 things anyway if you wanted to fix the game).

Why should we be satisfied with the inferior solution? Why aren't we encouraging the developers to fix their game properly and discourage them to take the cheap route?

[MauiWaui]

Instead of making the portion of the battle which is less enjoyable... more enjoyable? Instead of reducing "things" from 20 to 12 because you only need 12... why not make it so you need all 20 "things"? It is all backwards.

Can you honestly say that you enjoy having to hit one button multiple times to get to your planned ultimate action?

Every class has a base attack, making all classes have to sit there and hit the base attack button multiple times to get to the part of things that makes your class unique (and ultimately the reason you chose to play it), which seems a bit redundant.

Adding AA allows the gamer to do what is unique to their class and focus on those abilities.

[Kaedan]

Can you honestly say that you enjoy having to hit one button multiple times to get to your planned ultimate action?

Yes, I can honestly say that. It gives me more control over the battle and also keeps me involved and immersed. And really, people are exaggerating how much they have to "spam" their light attack.

[Demacia]

Yes, I can honestly say that. It gives me more control over the battle and also keeps me involved and immersed. And really, people are exaggerating how much they have to "spam" their light attack.

No they aren't. "Involved and immersed" sounds like an exaggeration to me.

[ESAR]

No they aren't. "Involved and immersed" sounds like an exaggeration to me.

Clearly you don't have any consideration as to how others feel... you should try it some time.

If many people feel this way, it's possible it's true..

Betal I already said that they need to make the inputs better, that is part of the argument for AA, less bad commands for more good ones. I am part of this older generation of gamers out there (28) and I have seen my fair share of good games and good game ideas. FFXIV has nothing revolutionary about it, all they have is a needlessly busy combat system. AA can either allow for fewer inputs for the same results, or for the same volume of inputs with more interesting mechanics. and you stil ahve not said why AA is an "inferior soulution" or "lack luster" just saying so is not an arguement. If you want me to understand, someone is going to have to explain why AA is inferior.

With these two comments I've come to the conclusion that those that want an auto-attack don't really give a crap about all those that enjoy battle the way it is.

Linnear,
I asked you a simple question in one of my last posts that you ignored me and didn't bother to answer.

Why do you feel we "need" an auto-attack?

I took a guess and judging by this comment I was right? (your ignoring me leads me to believe that as well)

Seems that you want to input fewer commands for the same result, no?

I explained an auto-attack that could do this without ruining battle for others.

If you want a more interesting battle Auto-attack is not the way to go..

Here's a better solution for yeah.
-Extend the queue,
-Rather then using TP to use weaponskills basic attacks would be used to open up for weaponsklls (weaponskills could now be used at any time).
-depending on the length of the combo, latter abilites in the chain would get bonuses such as increased ACC, ATT and CRT rate.

There, a richer more rewarding battle.
If you set actions to macros you can launch full strings of commands with just a quick macro selection. (you'll actually be able to press less buttons then an auto-attack.)
No more TP building (since mundane TP building seems to be a major arguement for wanting AA).

Really I just hope the devs see that adding a traditional AA is going to do more harm then good. I'm not investing in that, it's 2011 there are better solutions.

And one more time for the class....

Every action is important...

[Linnear]

Instead of making the portion of the battle which is less enjoyable... more enjoyable? Instead of reducing "things" from 20 to 12 because you only need 12... why not make it so you need all 20 "things"? It is all backwards.

I think it is quite a cheap way to fix the issue. It is not only about ADD kids either, the gamers these days are probably in their 20's or even 30's and they would most likely play this kind of game for "ADD kids" rather than a game where battles are more automated. Why is this kind of game somehow "inferior" that you need to use an insulting term like that? I don't think most people would agree with that.

It is a 'cheap' and lackluster solution to fix the problems of the game. You could fix the game better if you took those 5 things and implemented them, instead of one so-so feature with a noticeable downside to it (and you would still have to implement few of those 5 things anyway if you wanted to fix the game).

Why should we be satisfied with the inferior solution? Why aren't we encouraging the developers to fix their game properly and discourage them to take the cheap route?

Betal I already said that they need to make the inputs better, that is part of the argument for AA, less bad commands for more good ones. I am part of this older generation of gamers out there (28) and I have seen my fair share of good games and good game ideas. FFXIV has nothing revolutionary about it, all they have is a needlessly busy combat system. AA can either allow for fewer inputs for the same results, or for the same volume of inputs with more interesting mechanics. and you stil ahve not said why AA is an "inferior soulution" or "lack luster" just saying so is not an arguement. If you want me to understand, someone is going to have to explain why AA is inferior.

[Reika]

This thread should just be renamed "Auto-Attack: A blast from the past!"
OR "Auto-Attack: Because I am lazy!"
OR "Auto-Attack: All the mmos are doing it!"
OR "Auto-Attack: Because I hate originality"

That is what I think of auto attack...

[wind]

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This thread should just be renamed "Auto-Attack: A blast from the past!"
OR "Auto-Attack: Because I am lazy!"
OR "Auto-Attack: All the mmos are doing it!"
OR "Auto-Attack: Because I hate originality"

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[kukurumei]

And it only cost them 90% of their expected profits for the fiscal year 2011. What a great deal that is.