Auto-attack

[kukurumei]

I play with a 360 controller and absolutely do not want automated attack. As it stands, I make a conscious choice what to do, attack or use abilities, and it makes sense and works well. The greatest negative is the timing of spamming actions and never quite being sure if you have actually started it or not, this is a matter of "feel" and timing, and some subtle changes to feedback would resolve it, unless it is trully a server timing issue and actions are being dropped, but it seems wehre that was obvious, spellcasting, has improved and I am not sure that that is the problem now.

Most likely there is a lot of communication there for anti-hacking reasons. It doesn't take a lot of effort stream line such simple inputs. If we take a FF11 input, we would know that the whole system was rigged to the animation, such that there was no way to even "speed hack" it less you take down the entire client.

But the current system has 1 queue slot. So you can buffer 1 skill above your normal skills.

And I'm not sure what you mean by conscious choice...There's conscious choice in every game. Do you mean the conscious choice to do damage...or do damage? What other choice do you have that you don't if AA was implemented...? To take the hit...for the sake of taking the hit?

As always the problem with FF14 system is it's exactly like FF11 in that you attack till you have TP, while using passive skills, and then you use a WS. I'm not sure where the conscious choice is. To...not attack?

[Kaedan]

There hasn't been a single argument levied in favor of AA that has any merit. Every reason that people have listed in any of these threads is something that has an underlying cause irrelevant of the presence of AA.

Argument: I don't like having to spam the same attack often and over to build TP.
Counter: All AA will do is do it for you. The real problem is TP generation. There are too many 1000-2000 TP skills and not enough 0 and 250 TP skills). Rebalancing of TP generation and usage is what's needed, not a half-arsed measure like AA.

Argument: I shouldn't need to chain together a bunch of useless attacks before I can do the cool ones.
Counter: When every single attack is 'cool', they all quickly become mediocre.

Argument: Supplements to AA like weapon speed will make the combat more interesting.
Counter: No, it won't. All weapon speed does force you into a certain combat pace, and it's an annoyance that detracts more than it helps. LotRO actually normalized all weapon speeds due to this - it was just funneling characters to certain weapon types while doing nothing to the combat system except giving the devs something else to balance.

In case you've missed the actual arguments against AA, here they are:
1. No auto-attack means you are in control of your character. You character attacks when you tell it to. Enemy charging a retaliation counter, mobs CC'd, or Reflect up on your target? Not a problem.
2. No auto-attack means you set the pace of the battle. Should you keep yourself steady and fight a battle of finesse and attrition, or gut your stamina bar trying to take down that imp before it has a chance to cast and rock your world? It's up to you.
3. No auto-attack means you're involved. I'm not sure how Satohiko Matsui can claim AA doesn't make battles easier with a straight face. Plenty of posters have mentioned plainly on these same forums that they prefer to be able watch TV while battling. If not having to even pay attention to a battle isn't an indication of what AA does for a battle system, I'm not sure what is.

Very nice response and very true.

Unfortunately, it's coming and there's nothing we can do about it. Let's just hope we can trust Matsui when he says that AA was necessary for the new battle system he says "requires it".

[Aldarin]

Today is a wonderful day!

The developers just announced the new upcoming patches, 1.17, 1.17a, and 1.17b.
Apparently auto-attack will be finished just in time to be implemented in patch 1.17b.

Happy, Glorious Day!

[Enthy]

Today is a wonderful day!

The developers just announced the new upcoming patches, 1.17, 1.17a, and 1.17b.
Apparently auto-attack will be finished just in time to be implemented in patch 1.17b.

Happy, Glorious Day!

auto attack so soon? yaaaay~<3

[avalonstormm]

I personally think that auto-attack is beneficial.

[Alastora]

I am on the fence with Auto Attack. For melee jobs that are in a monster's face beating it to death, then I wouldn't mind seeing AA. On the other hand, I hate the idea of having AA on a mage job or even a ranger for that matter. Hate control is key for these roles and having your character continuously build hate when you don't want it to is NOT helpful. Here is a refresher on how we avoided it in FFXI and why it won't work as good here(or at all):

• Stay out of range: Mages now have long-range attack. You are no longer "spooning" them to death, so this won't work.
• Turn around: The main way to avoid AA from FFXI as to just turn away from the enemy. Unfortunately, in FFXIV monsters can do extra damage to you when you are turned around. Plus, many skills turn you around, like healing.
• Put away your weapon: Mages in FFXIV can use shields, so putting away your weapon means you just lost your blocking. It also increases the time it takes to cast, as now you have to waste animation time waiting on your character to go back to fighting stance.

Of course, all of this could be resolved by simply giving us the option of whether we want AA on. For my mages and ranger... you're royally screwing up my hate management. Everything else? I don't care either way. I mean, they can adjust hate management as well, but to what end? You have to keep adjusting more and more just to solve something that could be done with a flip of a switch. We'd just have to "educate" people on a constant basis to turn off their bloody AA when they are a mage though, hah!

So in the end, you want AA... fine... just let my mage turn the thing off.

[kukurumei]

I am on the fence with Auto Attack. For melee jobs that are in a monster's face beating it to death, then I wouldn't mind seeing AA. On the other hand, I hate the idea of having AA on a mage job or even a ranger for that matter. Hate control is key for these roles and having your character continuously build hate when you don't want it to is NOT helpful. Here is a refresher on how we avoided it in FFXI and why it won't work as good here(or at all):

• Stay out of range: Mages now have long-range attack. You are no longer "spooning" them to death, so this won't work.
• Turn around: The main way to avoid AA from FFXI as to just turn away from the enemy. Unfortunately, in FFXIV monsters can do extra damage to you when you are turned around. Plus, many skills turn you around, like healing.
• Put away your weapon: Mages in FFXIV can use shields, so putting away your weapon means you just lost your blocking. It also increases the time it takes to cast, as now you have to waste animation time waiting on your character to go back to fighting stance.

Of course, all of this could be resolved by simply giving us the option of whether we want AA on. For my mages and ranger... you're royally screwing up my hate management. Everything else? I don't care either way. I mean, they can adjust hate management as well, but to what end? You have to keep adjusting more and more just to solve something that could be done with a flip of a switch. We'd just have to "educate" people on a constant basis to turn off their bloody AA when they are a mage though, hah!

So in the end, you want AA... fine... just let my mage turn the thing off.

This hasn't been a problem for every MMO with AA, what makes you think it will be a problem here? Simple fact is, it's been solved long before FF11 was invented.

[Bearious]

I have not seen one post on this entire thread that actually looks at the overall goals for the implementation of the auto-attack. It is very clear that the launch of FFXIV did not go so well. Poll results show that over 85% voted yes when asked "Would you welcome changes to FINAL FANTASY XIV that would drastically alter the rules already set in Eorzea?" We, voted yes on that so everyone needs to stop crying now that they are doing something about it. The fact of the matter is, is that the auto-attack will do wonders to FFXIV's combat system. Currently using your basic attack does nothing to actually add skill or tactic into combat (except promote stamina management). The only reason for having a basic attack is to generate TP to use your useful skills. By automating this process, they are taking focus away from basic attack spamming and putting the focus onto useful abilities that promote skill and tactics in team play. People need to be looking at the real focus of this implementation to see that it is truly necessary. Yes, it is true that removing the current system will make combat less involving at low ranks. However, SE is not focusing on making combat exciting for rank 1's. The truth is that the implementation of auto-attack will do wonders for high rank play, making it much more skillful. That is why everyone one of us plays this game. We play to rank up, and as we rank up, there needs to be more of a challenge to keep the gameplay interesting. When you have 30 different abilities at rank 50, you should not be spamming one of them for 80% of the fight. By implementing the auto-attack, they are implementing SKILL and TACTICS into FFXIV at high rank play. I don't see how anyone can argue against that.

[Bearious]

I am on the fence with Auto Attack. For melee jobs that are in a monster's face beating it to death, then I wouldn't mind seeing AA. On the other hand, I hate the idea of having AA on a mage job or even a ranger for that matter. Hate control is key for these roles and having your character continuously build hate when you don't want it to is NOT helpful. Here is a refresher on how we avoided it in FFXI and why it won't work as good here(or at all):

• Stay out of range: Mages now have long-range attack. You are no longer "spooning" them to death, so this won't work.
• Turn around: The main way to avoid AA from FFXI as to just turn away from the enemy. Unfortunately, in FFXIV monsters can do extra damage to you when you are turned around. Plus, many skills turn you around, like healing.
• Put away your weapon: Mages in FFXIV can use shields, so putting away your weapon means you just lost your blocking. It also increases the time it takes to cast, as now you have to waste animation time waiting on your character to go back to fighting stance.

Of course, all of this could be resolved by simply giving us the option of whether we want AA on. For my mages and ranger... you're royally screwing up my hate management. Everything else? I don't care either way. I mean, they can adjust hate management as well, but to what end? You have to keep adjusting more and more just to solve something that could be done with a flip of a switch. We'd just have to "educate" people on a constant basis to turn off their bloody AA when they are a mage though, hah!

So in the end, you want AA... fine... just let my mage turn the thing off.

Your missing the simple fact that there will be an attack button. You will click that button to begin auto-attacking and you can click that button again to stop auto-attacking...

[Bearious]

Dear Dreamer,

Every one of your "actual arguments" against AA is completely incorrect.

1. No auto-attack means you are in control of your character. You character attacks when you tell it to. Enemy charging a retaliation counter, mobs CC'd, or Reflect up on your target? Not a problem.

The implementation of AA will only give you far greater control of your character. Stun abilities will be implemented, to skillfully counter an enemies move (and this stun ability will be much easier to use since you will not be basic attack spamming). As for the argument for CC, there will be a button that is called "attack". This revolutionary feature will allow you to begin auto-attacking when you press it AND stop auto-attacking when you press it again...

2. No auto-attack means you set the pace of the battle. Should you keep yourself steady and fight a battle of finesse and attrition, or gut your stamina bar trying to take down that imp before it has a chance to cast and rock your world? It's up to you.

This is also completely incorrect. This "setting the pace of battle" you speak of, is actually only the pace at which you run out of stamina from basic attacking. In any difficult battle you are going to want to kill the monster as fast as possible. This means that your stamina will be at about 20% the entire fight as you spam your abilities as fast as possible. There is no skill in conserving your stamina when you get no benefit for doing so.

3. No auto-attack means you're involved. I'm not sure how Satohiko Matsui can claim AA doesn't make battles easier with a straight face. Plenty of posters have mentioned plainly on these same forums that they prefer to be able watch TV while battling. If not having to even pay attention to a battle isn't an indication of what AA does for a battle system, I'm not sure what is.

More involved is a misleading phrase. You will not be any more involved with the new system than you were with the old system. However, with the auto-attack you will be involved in a much more skillful way at high rank play. If you want a more thorough description of why this is true, I advise you to read my original post above.

I'd just like to make it clear that is wasn't a post of why the implementation of AA is beneficial. This was just a post to show Dreamer why his arguments against AA are incorrect. As I have already stated, if you would like to see my full post of why AA is actually beneficial please look above.

PS - I do hope you attempt to argue against me Dreamer