Auto-attack

[Demacia]

Yes, I can honestly say that. It gives me more control over the battle and also keeps me involved and immersed. And really, people are exaggerating how much they have to "spam" their light attack.

No they aren't. "Involved and immersed" sounds like an exaggeration to me.

[Alcide]

Just came back after a while and people are still saying they spam o.O

Do you actually read the posts? a lot of people (me included) explained that you don't have to spam.

If you wanna do a lot of damage WS are better then normal attacks.
If you wanna get TP there are a lot of alternatives much better then spamming normal attacks (I listed a few of them).

So if "spam" is your only argument you should spend more time learing how to play rather than whining here.

[ESAR]

No they aren't. "Involved and immersed" sounds like an exaggeration to me.

Clearly you don't have any consideration as to how others feel... you should try it some time.

If many people feel this way, it's possible it's true..

Betal I already said that they need to make the inputs better, that is part of the argument for AA, less bad commands for more good ones. I am part of this older generation of gamers out there (28) and I have seen my fair share of good games and good game ideas. FFXIV has nothing revolutionary about it, all they have is a needlessly busy combat system. AA can either allow for fewer inputs for the same results, or for the same volume of inputs with more interesting mechanics. and you stil ahve not said why AA is an "inferior soulution" or "lack luster" just saying so is not an arguement. If you want me to understand, someone is going to have to explain why AA is inferior.

With these two comments I've come to the conclusion that those that want an auto-attack don't really give a crap about all those that enjoy battle the way it is.

Linnear,
I asked you a simple question in one of my last posts that you ignored me and didn't bother to answer.

Why do you feel we "need" an auto-attack?

I took a guess and judging by this comment I was right? (your ignoring me leads me to believe that as well)

Seems that you want to input fewer commands for the same result, no?

I explained an auto-attack that could do this without ruining battle for others.

If you want a more interesting battle Auto-attack is not the way to go..

Here's a better solution for yeah.
-Extend the queue,
-Rather then using TP to use weaponskills basic attacks would be used to open up for weaponsklls (weaponskills could now be used at any time).
-depending on the length of the combo, latter abilites in the chain would get bonuses such as increased ACC, ATT and CRT rate.

There, a richer more rewarding battle.
If you set actions to macros you can launch full strings of commands with just a quick macro selection. (you'll actually be able to press less buttons then an auto-attack.)
No more TP building (since mundane TP building seems to be a major arguement for wanting AA).

Really I just hope the devs see that adding a traditional AA is going to do more harm then good. I'm not investing in that, it's 2011 there are better solutions.

And one more time for the class....

Every action is important...

[kukurumei]

Clearly you don't have any consideration as to how others feel... you should try it some time.

If many people feel this way, it's possible it's true..



With these two comments I've come to the conclusion that those that want an auto-attack don't really give a crap about all those that enjoy battle the way it is.

Every action is important...

Don't slander people because they don't agree with you. In fact I would say it's been clear that a lot of people don't agree with you, considering how often this topic gets proposed, not just in official boards but every FF14 oriented boards.

Secondly, yes, every action is important. Like... attack, attack again, attack some more, and even more attack. Feels kinda automatic doesn't it.

111356 is auto attacking with 1 skill+WS. you button skills are but a pawn of overriding strategy of hacking something till it dies. And given the stamina bar, hacking something with the lowest/highest animation time is even more shallow.

[Kimahri]

It's not like the entire battle system would be automated, just the basic attack. It's kind of a pain, especially for controller users, to have to go back to row 1 space 1 every time they want to use a regular attack. You can't keep your cursor near other skills you may need to use at a moment's notice.

I agree that there are other things they could do to fix it but it's not like auto-attack is going to ruin everything.

Holy Christ! I know we're having a feud on another thread, but I am in complete agreement on this one. There is nothing wrong with an auto-attack function for normal melee attacks. It's not like we're asking for the AI to take over as soon as we engage and to use each ability by itself. We can activate other abilities ourselves like we did before, and perform weaponskills. This is a no-harm implementation that I can't see why anybody would have a problem with other than to just argue.

If your biggest concern is freedom, I highly doubt this would infringe on it.

Edit: Another big thing I think needs to be addressed is the TP gain. It's obtained way too easily. I think I gain 600 TP per normal hit? That's like getting 60% in FFXI as opposed to Samurai's 16-17% per hit. Only difference is that you wait, what, 5-10 seconds before you can use the same weaponskill again? And I know you can use a weaponskill with 2000 TP as well. Don't mention that.

[Linnear]

Linnear,
I asked you a simple question in one of my last posts that you ignored me and didn't bother to answer.

Why do you feel we "need" an auto-attack?

I took a guess and judging by this comment I was right? (your ignoring me leads me to believe that as well)

Seems that you want to input fewer commands for the same result, no?

As usual you are making wrong conclusions with no evidence to back you up. I ignored your statement becasue I have given 4 (mabey more) in previous posts about why I want AA.

Reduce the need of useless attacks,

Integrate weapon speed, (status weapon diversity and more interesting choices of weapons as a result)

Allow for more room for what I consider more interesting attaks

Class uniqueness though weapon delays, styles of battle and various levels of busy, (15 or 30 actions per second)
remember the brd vs war point, No? Guess you missed this like every other point I made.

Give the controler people a break from going nuts and quiting this game for ever.


None of these statements claim we NEED an AA but they are all arguements for the implementation, and I have already acknowledged that these things can be done in other ways. Claiming there are other ways is not an arguement for why these ways are bad. Claiming they are lack luster does say WHY they are lack luster. If I say your MOM is fat, I can't quantify that. If I say your mom is 400 pounds therefore she is fat is better.

Here is another example.
Dude 1:
Man Chuck Norris is awsome,

Dude 2: Really? I think Bruce Lee is awsome

Dude 1: Well, Chucky does like roundhouses and doesnt' need to shave, and wears cowboy boots, thoes are all awsome.

Dude 2: Pshhh BS Chuck is Old and cowboy boots are out of style, besides I don't like shaving.

Dude 1: Ok so what is so Amazing about Bruce?


Dude 2: well he is awsome, much cooler then that old Norris guy.

Dude 1: are you kidding me Chuck has been awsome for like 30 years and he is still alive, and kicking asses, where is Lee O yea thats right he is dead, how awsome can you be if you dead.

Dude 2: Please Noriss is a has been, nothing cool there, besides there are at least 10 other guys that can kick his ass.

Dude 1: Meh, perhaps, he is still cooler then Lee.

Dude 2: yea but how can you say Norris.....

I think you can see where this is going.


Granted this a silly example but this is what the forums feel like.

someone says we want AA
someone else says STFU I like this system
someone explains why AA would be a good idea
someone else say, your reasons can not be validaded
General arguement about the various things AA can provide
AA promoters list a few ideas
AA denyers argue thoes ideas opposed to introducing their own
General Flamewar

A new thread appears.....

The first 4-5 steps are unavoidable in forums (people tend to not argue details initially sadly)
This is the step in the forums where the AA denyers NEED to give an arguement for their ideas, unless you do SE will not have enough understanding of your side to give you any real weight or credibility.

The AA denyers have yet to provide a SINGLE arguement that can be supported by a truthfull arguement or evidence againts AA other than you don't like it.(your allowed to think this and your even allowed to say so, but that is not an arguement) So unless you have a good reason why SE should keep this system your going to lose this debate. You can scream as loud as you want but just saying I DON"T WANNA will not convice someone to change something, you need to give reasons. Right now a change (or series if changes) NEED to happen, I am not convinced that AA is the best solution to fixing the combat system, but it is the only one that has any arguements for it's implementation. You can argue thoes points all day long but until you present your own AA promoters will likly win.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

I use Google Translate so I don't really know what this is about, but it seems to be about Auto-Attack. This is FYI guys. Someone with better translation skills can open this discussion.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...2250#post62250

[Reika]

I use Google Translate so I don't really know what this is about, but it seems to be about Auto-Attack. This is FYI guys. Someone with better translation skills can open this discussion.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...2250#post62250

that roughly translates to:

FXIV players, nice to meet you. It is Satohiko Matsui in charge of the battle. Thanks in advance for your help.

Then I will give an explanation about the present policy at once. At first I think that the introduction of the automatic attack is necessary when I adjust the future battle balance and battle system. Anyway, this solves the present conditions that it becomes most effective to ring repeatedly, and please arrest him when I do it for a battle with the fun, a battle with the tactics characteristics more when it is one of the reviews that it is necessary.

I don't think that all is settled only by ですので, automatic attack introduction. Even other threads are given as a theme, but think that the future battle doesn't at least consist without the introduction of the automatic attack at the present stage when they take an element crossing a characteristic and the ability according to the class from the part of the root and trunk why go an action gauge and the occupation system in why a thing and a monster and raid dungeon, the equipage go many divergences where you should go to how into account and looked around the whole.

In such a premise, I assume the short thing of the attack interval generally when I compare the automatic attack in FFXIV with it of FFXI. (Even a forum is invoked well, and please permit that I start an automatic attack of FFXI as a comparison object because I have been charge. Which is good; isn't to be bad. )

It isn't a purpose that this lowers the degree of difficulty of the battle. Instead of usually attacking it when a tempo and the refreshment are so and think about a battle with the tactics characteristics that I gave earlier, it is a main purpose to prepare for the situation that can measure ability and magic, the use timing of the weapon skill. Therefore, aside from a partner of the demotion, can beat a battle by only an automatic attack basically; isn't balanced.

Because there are many item which should inspect still more and factors that must examine, it is difficult to tell you about concrete contents more than this; an a little more interval feel sick; let do it, but follow it in what try hard little, to be able to tell you about much|many information; thanking you in advance.

[Linnear]

Hmmm, the guy that makes video games for a living, agrees that AA does does NOT reduce dificulty.. What a revelation.. I wish someone on the NA forums has been saying this...

Other than that I am glad to see that it looks like he will increase the speed of the AAs, that is a welcome change to XIs system. I am curious if there will be other TP generating abilities as well to augment the AA system. I suspect there will be since it seems like the easest way to increase actions with the loss of light attacks etc. They will likly either require a lot of stam or have a larger CD, 30 ish seconds. Personally I want a 30ish second CD, that way it does not sacrafice too many other actions. What do you guys think?

[Paksenarrion]

I am so disappointed. I really really really don't want auto-attack.