Auto-attack

[Linnear]

Then why are you still arguing with me? Better ways are available, that's what SE should do to fix the game, not this. Prove me wrong or agree, but don't ignore them.



-Your hands are free to play the game simultaneously
-Most people speak faster than they type
-Speech lets us express ourselves better than just text.
-You are not limited to having the keyboard with you when you talk.
-You aren't forced to look at the chat box to hear what people are saying.

Yes, I kind of expected these things to be clear to everyone. It's not like I am revealing some huge secret here (maybe?).



And if you want to talk using text they need to put the AA ability in. Your solution is not any better, both need work but mine makes more sense because of what was said above.



That's not the problem, and even if it is, you haven't presented any reason why that would be. "Too many button inputs" creates the problem of "not being able to chat efficiently", my solution fixes the problem while not making any modifications to something that doesn't need any modifications (button inputs). If you said that the problem is that we are left to perform only few of the several actions available it would be different, but that problem has to do with the lack of encounter difficulty that doesn't require you to use the full list of your equipped abilities efficiently, and again, has nothing to do with the button inputs.



Yes, I don't like repeating myself nor replying to arguments with imaginary problems. Too bad it seems I need to do both to get my point across.



It's not really relevant- whether its "most damage" or "a lot of damage" doesn't matter, the fact that it makes a large difference is enough. If you disagree, I'd want to know why. If you don't (which I assume is the case), then don't reply back. I won't quantify things that are apparent as-is.



Go ahead dude.



Only as long as the info is out there already. I don't like repeating myself (oops). You did point out an exception to the rule though.



It is a desired effect for a game which is too involving (which this game is not), and if it can be avoided it should be avoided. Sometimes that is not possible, in this game's case fortunately it can be avoided and as such it should be. It's irrelevant to the argument, but thank you for pointing it out.



Did you just say common as a "come on"? Stick to the argument at hand, please.



-Communication: Voice Chat, Stacking battle commands. << better solutions presented here exist, which is why I don't want AA.
-Involvement: Stacking battle commands does not automate the combat, only concentrates it << AA automates the combat to achieve the same end result, which is undesirable because the game is not too involving.
-Server lag: Better server code, better server hardware. << Server lag should not be used as an excuse to automate the combat, as the problem can be dealt in better ways presented here.
-Homogenized use of skills: Make the encounters harder, situationalize the skills further. << AA won't fix this, thus it would be a waste of resources to implement for this reason.
-The UI does not take gamepads into account: Make the UI more suitable for gamepads << AA would excuse them to not make the UI more suitable for gamepads, and acts as going around the problem by sacrificing involvement in the process.
-PC MMO players: Do not consider this game inferior because the gameplay has been toned down for the sake of console players that have to deal with an inproper User Interface as well as unoptimized servers. << This is what would happen when you reduce the amount of button presses in relation to other MMO's while keeping the gameplay the same as in those MMO's for the most part.

This is by far your best reply to date but it is still missing a few things.
I hear what your saying about the VOIP thing, personally I play with a controller and I used Mumble with my LS before we all got tired of a terrible combat system. If they put in a VOIP that works well cross platform, and allows for the PS3 community to be integrated it would be fine. I used Team speak, then TS2, vent, and now mumble for FFXI and other games, I have seen the evolution of VOIP used for games what I see right now is a dichotomy in most games which splits up the players in thoes that do and thoes that don't. I used VOIP for XI and it split every LS I was in, thoes that used it got close, 5-10 and the rest of the LS namly the PS3 users and the casuals did their own thing. IF SE puts in VOIP then I think it would solve SOME of the problems with controlers, but the volume of commands in their current form is tireing and annoying. AA would still aleviate some of this nuisance, like I said previously I think VOIP would solve SOME of the problems, but it is not a better solution, it is a complementary one.

AA only automates basic TP buliding in the game, I haven't really seen a down side to this other than giving the ADD kids less to do. Like I said before, what is wrong with automating a portion of the battle which is less enjoyable? Why do 20 things when you only need 12? That is button mashing for the sake of hitting keys IMO. AA doesn't need to simplify battle or reduse inputs. Even if all the changes we BOTH want to see happen occure, VOIP, more intense combat, better controller UI, etc, AA would just leave more room for non tp generating/using abilities. Remember WoW also has an AA and still allows for 30 ish commands a min, AA does not mean you need an automated battle system. Personal buffs, movement enhancing buffs, different types of attacks. I am pretty sure you can see where I am going with this, but the main point is AA doesn't mean simplified battle or even more automated battle or fewer button inputs, it just leaves more room for different things without making the controller people cry in their sleep, even with a better UI.

Your last point is an interesting statement, what I get out of it is you expect XIV to compete with other MMOs using their rules? I don't think XIV can compete with WoW, or EQ2 simply becuase the people who like that style of gameplay are going to stick with thoes games in the long run. They each have nearly 10 years expereince designing, balanacing, tuning their gamepaly to that audiance. If you think XIV should try to compete with thoes button mashers(WoW has auto atatck and still allows for 30ish commands a min btw), that is your opinion and your entitled to it, but there are a few simple rules to project management, one of which is improve/exploit your strengths, and try not to compete with someone who provides a better product than you do for that market. Button mashing is not SE strengths, (blizzard and company do it much better) thoughtfull gameplay is, having attacks which just take up time to use and nothing more is a waste of a button press and I think other advocates of AA agree with me on this one. I am not saying never try something new, but this should of been tried in Alpha, and then thrown out latter, the problem is Alpha/Beta did not last anywhere near long enough and they had no forums during that testing phase to quickly get comments from the community, (biggest mistake of the entire project by far, why test if your not going to provide a method for outside input?).

I have listed a couple other things in previous threads about AA such as it allows for more diverse weapon choices, (AA bulid or focus on abilities, Haste>str or w/e depending on what your fighting, Amnesia mobs or high defence mobs, etc)

It also allows for weapon speed to come back into play, granted this can also be accomplished by other things like implementing it into the stam bar, it is a nice elequant solution to both my problems, too many boreing actions and no weapon speed. With weapon speeds you get more interesting things such as status weapon choices at ceterain stages of progression as well but like I said there are other ways to do this, but this hits a couple problems at the same time.

Depending on the speed of the AA it can also add timing aspects to combat becuase abilities can override the AA timer, so if you do ws 1 a second before your next swing, you lose the damage from that swing, and reset the swing delay (like FFXI) but if you wait that extra second you get more damage. You reward your players for watching their characters and what they are doing. They tried this with the dodge/block retaliates, but other actions you preform block out thoes movement which is why there is a thread for fixing the UI in that respect for thoes abilities. But for Auto attack there are also damage markers in teh text and on screen that help alert you if you have just auto attacked or not so your increasing the skill required to maximise damage. If you don't care about that level of detail and play you can just ignore it, and not lose a massive amount of damage, (this depends on how much damage AA will do but that is for SE to figure out).

Like I said before I have posted this on some of the other threads on the topics, and I think I adressed some of your issues with AA Betel, I know there are other ways to get a couple of these results, but why change 5 or more things to adress these problems when one can do most of it? expecially when there is no major downside to it?

P.S please do not list other ways to fix the above problems, I know there are other ways of fixing them, and some of them are just personel issues I have with the game, just tell me why AA is bad for FF? I just showed that you can have AA and still button mash (even though I don't particularly like that option), so what else am I missing here.

[Linnear]

Almost forgot about class uniqueness, with AA and weapon speed and such classes can have a different feel to them. Also it allows for some jobs to have a different volume of inputs then others, some jobs can be really busy while some can be less input intense. Perfect example is Brd and warrior, Brd if played well was really input intensive and busy, war was pretty slow paced by comparison, with AA these aspects of the jobs can be investigated easier.