Auto-attack

[ESAR]

Um this thread is about how to improve the battle system through the implementation of Auto attack. Not the Automation of the battle system. I haven't seen one post that says "let the game play for me"
Having TP generating attacks, attack in set intervals does not equal automation of the battle system. As you still need player issued commands for TPskills/abilities/Spells

People who are in favor of a FFXIII style battle system, are basically in favor of a nearly full automated battle system. Which is not strategic or engaging at all. (the strategy in FFXIII was to adapt to the changes of the battle system. Not issuing battle commands.)

I'll ask this again.

How will auto attack effect your over all gameplay currently? How will it change the way you play?

Auto-attack is not the right decision, it's not going to solve anything, yay so we build TP without touching anything...
What about those basic attacks that had a specail purpose?..
Where do you think those are going?
They're going to be converted into TP moves...
Yay, now we've lowered our overall ability count by 3... and we've ruined a perfectly fun game by having 5-10 second wait times between each attack.

Find another way to fix battle, this isn't going to help.

How many people do you think are going to play this on console if they have to wait 10 seconds between attacks?
I'll fill you in, about 10% that woulda otherwise...
It's a very unwise buissness decision..

A better alternative would be to convert this game into what it really is, a more action type MMO. Take out targeting and allow us to attack whenever making it easier for us to get position.

The action bar is not the problem, the action bar is the exact same as the macro set up in FFXI, 10 slots. If people are having problems because it's 10 slots now, why on earth weren't these problems there in FFXI?

[Ceons]

They could implement a systemlike FF13 where you choose your next 3/4 attacks and then hit execute. Or you only pick 2 attacks and then hit execute. this way you still pick what you want to do but other's don't have to keep pressing the same button!

[ESAR]

I had an idea similar to this.
There a problem with ffxiii, people didnt like the fact you had to conform the set in order to execute the string.
Rather, and it's almost the same thing you mentioned, increase the battle queue but once the first attack is selected it automatically executes, from there you can add attacks to the queue that will keep executing until you run out of stamina or stop inputting comands. The biggest problem with br is the same thing, the wait time.
People don't like the wait time in br which would resemble xiii

Of course if you thought about it, if all these people are complaining about wait times, how on earth is waiting 5-10 seconds to attack a realistic choice to save battle...

[gifthorse]

Position in battle should matter. Having a queue of attacks would make repositioning in battle difficult, due simply to the fact that you cannot move whilst attacking. Haven't you ever tried to evade a mole whilst mid-weaponskill? It's almost impossible.

So I think things like autoattack and battle-queues come at the expense of some other features, namely a combat system where position matters.

[ChiefCurrahee]

Esar:
Why does Auto Attack have to be 5-10 between intervals? Why not 2-5? why not 3-7? thats fairly fast.
Those skills that generate TP but have a secondary effect on them i.e. Heavy Thrust and Pierce. That is easy to take care of.
Pierce becomes an ability you can slot to make your Auto Attack AOE, or make it a togglable Modifier.

Heavy Thrust is a situational attack at best, It can be a 0 TP move with a short cool down.

Fixed.

As for the FFXIII style stacking system. The major flaw in that is situational command attacks. Stack 2-3 attacks what if all of a sudden you Shield Block and want to use Phalanx? Does that get put into the cue? Does it supersede your stacked commands and fire immediately? If it does, do you then have to restack your commands? What about for a mage? I have 3 Thunders stacked... but now the Tank is going down... Too bad I didn't cure bomb instead.
This system does nothing to the fact that you still have to navigate the action menu to select each and every attack. Which after a short amount of time becomes increasingly tedious.

How do you solve those issues that arise. I'm glad that people are thinking well instead of just have a direct AA, how about this. But follow through with critical thinking of all the ins and outs of the system.

And no one has answered this yet.

How does having an Auto Attack implemented effect your gameplay to a point where the fundamental mechanics change?

Do you still have the ability to issue situational commands?
Do you still have the ability to issue TP skills or class abilities on command?
Do you still have the ability to stop attacking on command (toggle AA on/off or put away weapon)

The only thing that changes is the rate at which you accrue TP, which should be balanced by weapon type. Fast attacking weapons do lower damage and smaller TP return, and slow attacking weapons deal higher damage and have a great TP return.

We aren't asking for FFXI battle system, where it's slow and using 1 TP move wipes out all your TP.

thats one thing in the battle system FFXIV got right, making TP moves cost x-amount of TP and what you don't use you keep.

And Betelgeuzah, I can't talk on vent. I'm a mute. So i'm relegated to using the keyboard for communication, or I'm Deaf and can't hear what you're saying. Oh yeah, I don't speak the same language as you so it's hard for me to understand you, or my english is so broken I communicate better when i type. <can you use auto translate?> <thank you>

[ESAR]

Esar:
Why does Auto Attack have to be 5-10 between intervals? Why not 2-5? why not 3-7? thats fairly fast.
Those skills that generate TP but have a secondary effect on them i.e. Heavy Thrust and Pierce. That is easy to take care of.
Pierce becomes an ability you can slot to make your Auto Attack AOE, or make it a togglable Modifier.

Heavy Thrust is a situational attack at best, It can be a 0 TP move with a short cool down.

Fixed.

Fixed, hardly.

How is making be have to wait when I don't have to now fixing anything?
You want to convert this game back to the dog ages why, so you can play multiple accounts, forget that. There's no real other reason you would need an auto-attack.

Did I not mention that everyone is complaining about wait times, it's not more wait times we need, it's a more organized way of executing the current commands that we need to worry about.

An extended battle queue does that.

As for the FFXIII style stacking system. The major flaw in that is situational command attacks. Stack 2-3 attacks what if all of a sudden you Shield Block and want to use Phalanx? Does that get put into the cue? Does it supersede your stacked commands and fire immediately? If it does, do you then have to restack your commands? What about for a mage? I have 3 Thunders stacked... but now the Tank is going down... Too bad I didn't cure bomb instead.
This system does nothing to the fact that you still have to navigate the action menu to select each and every attack. Which after a short amount of time becomes increasingly tedious.

As for that special category of attacks that executes instantly (Shield bash, Phalanx, second wind, ect.) they can be injected into the current queue.

Pressing that action would have it act after the current action finishes and then the queue would continue.

At any time you could discard the current queue by pressing cancel.

At this point you'd have two options, you can rebuild stamina, or keep stacking commands.

How does having an Auto Attack implemented effect your gameplay to a point where the fundamental mechanics change?

The change incurred with auto-attack removes us from the game and at no benefit. Right now battle is very rewarding, I can input every command, they all have purpose I use my stamina which controls the flow of battle and I need to be conscious of this at all times in order to be successful at my current position (Solo, tank, healer, DD).

What you want to do is take that involved feeling away so that I'm only inputting what you consider important commands (TP skills).

I beg to differ, I see each attack having it's own purpose.

Rather then us ruining the current battle lets get rid of what isn't really needed, remove TP. From this point simply change basic attacks to cost less stamina (depending on the weapon which will cause variances).
This will have them act as what they should be, openers to your devastating abilities (Weaponskills/magic).
I'd also have it so basic skills added bonuses to weaponskills if you chose to open with them, like increase acc, dmg and crt hit rate.

You wanted ideas, there. And I didn't have to ruin the game. (It's my opinion that both an auto-attack and auction house will ruin parts of the game. The change in SP already has)

[Linnear]

Then why are you still arguing with me? Better ways are available, that's what SE should do to fix the game, not this. Prove me wrong or agree, but don't ignore them.



-Your hands are free to play the game simultaneously
-Most people speak faster than they type
-Speech lets us express ourselves better than just text.
-You are not limited to having the keyboard with you when you talk.
-You aren't forced to look at the chat box to hear what people are saying.

Yes, I kind of expected these things to be clear to everyone. It's not like I am revealing some huge secret here (maybe?).



And if you want to talk using text they need to put the AA ability in. Your solution is not any better, both need work but mine makes more sense because of what was said above.



That's not the problem, and even if it is, you haven't presented any reason why that would be. "Too many button inputs" creates the problem of "not being able to chat efficiently", my solution fixes the problem while not making any modifications to something that doesn't need any modifications (button inputs). If you said that the problem is that we are left to perform only few of the several actions available it would be different, but that problem has to do with the lack of encounter difficulty that doesn't require you to use the full list of your equipped abilities efficiently, and again, has nothing to do with the button inputs.



Yes, I don't like repeating myself nor replying to arguments with imaginary problems. Too bad it seems I need to do both to get my point across.



It's not really relevant- whether its "most damage" or "a lot of damage" doesn't matter, the fact that it makes a large difference is enough. If you disagree, I'd want to know why. If you don't (which I assume is the case), then don't reply back. I won't quantify things that are apparent as-is.



Go ahead dude.



Only as long as the info is out there already. I don't like repeating myself (oops). You did point out an exception to the rule though.



It is a desired effect for a game which is too involving (which this game is not), and if it can be avoided it should be avoided. Sometimes that is not possible, in this game's case fortunately it can be avoided and as such it should be. It's irrelevant to the argument, but thank you for pointing it out.



Did you just say common as a "come on"? Stick to the argument at hand, please.



-Communication: Voice Chat, Stacking battle commands. << better solutions presented here exist, which is why I don't want AA.
-Involvement: Stacking battle commands does not automate the combat, only concentrates it << AA automates the combat to achieve the same end result, which is undesirable because the game is not too involving.
-Server lag: Better server code, better server hardware. << Server lag should not be used as an excuse to automate the combat, as the problem can be dealt in better ways presented here.
-Homogenized use of skills: Make the encounters harder, situationalize the skills further. << AA won't fix this, thus it would be a waste of resources to implement for this reason.
-The UI does not take gamepads into account: Make the UI more suitable for gamepads << AA would excuse them to not make the UI more suitable for gamepads, and acts as going around the problem by sacrificing involvement in the process.
-PC MMO players: Do not consider this game inferior because the gameplay has been toned down for the sake of console players that have to deal with an inproper User Interface as well as unoptimized servers. << This is what would happen when you reduce the amount of button presses in relation to other MMO's while keeping the gameplay the same as in those MMO's for the most part.

This is by far your best reply to date but it is still missing a few things.
I hear what your saying about the VOIP thing, personally I play with a controller and I used Mumble with my LS before we all got tired of a terrible combat system. If they put in a VOIP that works well cross platform, and allows for the PS3 community to be integrated it would be fine. I used Team speak, then TS2, vent, and now mumble for FFXI and other games, I have seen the evolution of VOIP used for games what I see right now is a dichotomy in most games which splits up the players in thoes that do and thoes that don't. I used VOIP for XI and it split every LS I was in, thoes that used it got close, 5-10 and the rest of the LS namly the PS3 users and the casuals did their own thing. IF SE puts in VOIP then I think it would solve SOME of the problems with controlers, but the volume of commands in their current form is tireing and annoying. AA would still aleviate some of this nuisance, like I said previously I think VOIP would solve SOME of the problems, but it is not a better solution, it is a complementary one.

AA only automates basic TP buliding in the game, I haven't really seen a down side to this other than giving the ADD kids less to do. Like I said before, what is wrong with automating a portion of the battle which is less enjoyable? Why do 20 things when you only need 12? That is button mashing for the sake of hitting keys IMO. AA doesn't need to simplify battle or reduse inputs. Even if all the changes we BOTH want to see happen occure, VOIP, more intense combat, better controller UI, etc, AA would just leave more room for non tp generating/using abilities. Remember WoW also has an AA and still allows for 30 ish commands a min, AA does not mean you need an automated battle system. Personal buffs, movement enhancing buffs, different types of attacks. I am pretty sure you can see where I am going with this, but the main point is AA doesn't mean simplified battle or even more automated battle or fewer button inputs, it just leaves more room for different things without making the controller people cry in their sleep, even with a better UI.

Your last point is an interesting statement, what I get out of it is you expect XIV to compete with other MMOs using their rules? I don't think XIV can compete with WoW, or EQ2 simply becuase the people who like that style of gameplay are going to stick with thoes games in the long run. They each have nearly 10 years expereince designing, balanacing, tuning their gamepaly to that audiance. If you think XIV should try to compete with thoes button mashers(WoW has auto atatck and still allows for 30ish commands a min btw), that is your opinion and your entitled to it, but there are a few simple rules to project management, one of which is improve/exploit your strengths, and try not to compete with someone who provides a better product than you do for that market. Button mashing is not SE strengths, (blizzard and company do it much better) thoughtfull gameplay is, having attacks which just take up time to use and nothing more is a waste of a button press and I think other advocates of AA agree with me on this one. I am not saying never try something new, but this should of been tried in Alpha, and then thrown out latter, the problem is Alpha/Beta did not last anywhere near long enough and they had no forums during that testing phase to quickly get comments from the community, (biggest mistake of the entire project by far, why test if your not going to provide a method for outside input?).

I have listed a couple other things in previous threads about AA such as it allows for more diverse weapon choices, (AA bulid or focus on abilities, Haste>str or w/e depending on what your fighting, Amnesia mobs or high defence mobs, etc)

It also allows for weapon speed to come back into play, granted this can also be accomplished by other things like implementing it into the stam bar, it is a nice elequant solution to both my problems, too many boreing actions and no weapon speed. With weapon speeds you get more interesting things such as status weapon choices at ceterain stages of progression as well but like I said there are other ways to do this, but this hits a couple problems at the same time.

Depending on the speed of the AA it can also add timing aspects to combat becuase abilities can override the AA timer, so if you do ws 1 a second before your next swing, you lose the damage from that swing, and reset the swing delay (like FFXI) but if you wait that extra second you get more damage. You reward your players for watching their characters and what they are doing. They tried this with the dodge/block retaliates, but other actions you preform block out thoes movement which is why there is a thread for fixing the UI in that respect for thoes abilities. But for Auto attack there are also damage markers in teh text and on screen that help alert you if you have just auto attacked or not so your increasing the skill required to maximise damage. If you don't care about that level of detail and play you can just ignore it, and not lose a massive amount of damage, (this depends on how much damage AA will do but that is for SE to figure out).

Like I said before I have posted this on some of the other threads on the topics, and I think I adressed some of your issues with AA Betel, I know there are other ways to get a couple of these results, but why change 5 or more things to adress these problems when one can do most of it? expecially when there is no major downside to it?

P.S please do not list other ways to fix the above problems, I know there are other ways of fixing them, and some of them are just personel issues I have with the game, just tell me why AA is bad for FF? I just showed that you can have AA and still button mash (even though I don't particularly like that option), so what else am I missing here.

[Linnear]

Almost forgot about class uniqueness, with AA and weapon speed and such classes can have a different feel to them. Also it allows for some jobs to have a different volume of inputs then others, some jobs can be really busy while some can be less input intense. Perfect example is Brd and warrior, Brd if played well was really input intensive and busy, war was pretty slow paced by comparison, with AA these aspects of the jobs can be investigated easier.

[ESAR]

Linnear,

AA only automates basic TP buliding in the game, I haven't really seen a down side to this other than giving the ADD kids less to do.

Dude, be careful what you say.
Know any stats on ADD?
It's suspected that 35% of people have some form of ADD.
Regardless, it's a big damn number of people of people for a company to just ignore.
Also ADD isn't what you think, people with ADD would be able to focus better on things they enjoy like video games so in reality it's a the percentage of people playing with ADD is probably higher.
No one should be scared of ADD pretty much everyone has it it's BS.
You don't really need drugs either, the school systems just need to better conform to people with these learning needs. I'm sure I coulda passed school if this was the case. I didn't really like going so that was my bigger problem xD.
(I really shouldn't have put this part in, but I'm not sure many people know what ADD actually is, it's just a way of thinking really, I wouldn't call it a disorder. I swear my problem is that I can only concentrate on one thing at a time and if that one thing is really boring to me I just can't concentrate on it. This is why it affects people in school, their grades fail if they aren't enjoying a subject they're learning. School just need to be more fun and to the point of what you want to learn. I'm rambling sorry xDD)

Like I said before, what is wrong with automating a portion of the battle which is less enjoyable?

Everything. Battle wasn't meant for auto-attack, every action has purpose and pulls its weight in battle. That's why some people choose to only press 1,1,1,1,1.. because basic attacks are powerful enough to use as your only attack. Not more powerful then other attacks they can use, but it gets the job done. This also in no way means you need to fight like that which as evidence from what I hear, you don't.

Why do 20 things when you only need 12?

Because most people (not the smaller percentage of people that want auto-attack) want to feel involved in the video game they're playing, not like some distance figure.

Did you ever have auto-attack in a console RPG? No.

That's because there was no need for it, there isn't with an MMO either.
The only reason they have auto-attack is because they added TP (and they possibly did this because at the time of the creation of FFXI there were limitations that caused them to need to limit data transfers and such) and it was probably easier to string all the battle animations together since most were automated and not controlled by the player. It's probably much cleaner for them to only process a command from the players once every 5 or so seconds rather then every one.

We no longer need to be limited by such things, it's the future, we can have a more rewarding game.

The reason I want to be able to do 20 things when I only need to do 12, is because I can... If you don't want to, make macros, nothings stopping ya.

You don't need to make them, I play on controller and I have no problem with it, the only problem for me with battle is the targeting. I'm not saying I'm better then you or anything, but I'm pretty sure your exaggerating your need for an auto-attack.
It's going to do alot of bad for what this game can be, it's a bad idea (no offence and sorry).

That is button mashing for the sake of hitting keys IMO. AA doesn't need to simplify battle or reduce inputs.

There is no need to reduce these inputs, it's not the button mashing that's the problem, it's the fact that executing commands has become sloppy and we resort to button mashing.
With an extended battle queue it would solve this problem. Yeah you still have to input those 20 commands but it'll flow real nice and every action you select you know is going in the queue, there's no guesswork involved.

And if you're so adamant on needing to input less, make strings of commands and set them to macros. There, your 20 commands (which is an exaggeration on your behalf) has been changed to just one. Now you can be as distant from the game as you choose.

See what I did there, I solved your problem and mine without needing to resort to some outdated and ancient technology.

They each have nearly 10 years expereince designing, balanacing, tuning their gamepaly to that audiance.

You do realize that SE is right here with them right. They invented alot of really neat features and as far as I'm concerned every other MMO fails in comparison to that. One thing they have that no other does (besides meaningful and strategic battle (I've only tried others but was never as impressed as I was with FFXI, that's why I haven't played any besides), they own at storytelling).

They no exactly what works and what doesn't and they implemented all that knowledge into this game. That's why I can sleep well knowing that they're not going to listen to such a ridiculous request like add an auto-attack or an auctions house. If you need I can solve all your problems without creating more by adding these two things.

I am not saying never try something new, but this should of been tried in Alpha, and then thrown out latter, the problem is Alpha/Beta did not last anywhere near long enough and they had no forums during that testing phase to quickly get comments from the community, (biggest mistake of the entire project by far, why test if your not going to provide a method for outside input?).

They didn't try it because they knew it was a bad idea.
Do you want to know why everything failed?
The change in attack speed caused too many changes to be needed elsewhere in the game.
It's in no way that this game has failed, it's rather the contrary, this game is going to succeed because they noticed a vital flaw early in the games life. They will succeed, just the testing period and ironing out is going to take longer because of this. In fact if they play there cards right, every game on this planet will be nothing in comparison to this.

It also allows for weapon speed to come back into play, granted this can also be accomplished by other things like implementing it into the stam bar, it is a nice elequant solution to both my problems, too many boreing actions and no weapon speed.

I do agree that no difference in weapon speed is one of this games biggest problems but how on earth is having no control over your weapon going to help that?
It's not, You've taken any definition we can get from weapons and ruined the possibility that we can have that.

Rather and a far more modern solution, would be to reexamine the current weapon speeds and change them to have a unique feel. That's what the weapon descriptions sounded like to me on the FFXIV site and when I first heard about stamina. It sounded to me like pugilist would attack fast and with lighter attacks using less stamina and marauder would attack with longer more powerful swing capable of hitting multiple foes.

Rather then having every class feel the exact same because we can use abilities amongst the classes we need to make them all feel different by changing the rates at which they use stamina.

Me having no control of my basic attacks and only inputing commands every few seconds will make every class feel bland and I'm not going to want to play a game like that.
Rather we have a real foundation to make this game very unique and interesting, lets bring out what we already have and just make it more user friendly and interesting.

P.S please do not list other ways to fix the above problems, I know there are other ways of fixing them, and some of them are just personel issues I have with the game, just tell me why AA is bad for FF? I just showed that you can have AA and still button mash (even though I don't particularly like that option), so what else am I missing here.

I'm hoping this was addressed to me and you didn't skip my last post lol. But I've thought alot more into the consequences of adding AA then you have, I came up with an idea to do it at first but soon realized that it takes too much from this game and the idea should just be abolished.
If you want a game with auto-attack go play another, this game will pave the way for other games as long as it doesn't listen to such narrow-minded requests as this. (I'm not being rude but you need to be open minded to both sides of your argument if you plan to have success backing up yours).

Take it from my extremely devoted and well thought out opinion, an auto-attack was not meant for this game, it's an older outdated tech and there are much better rewarding options that can do everything an auto-attack can plus more.

The extended battle queue is a perfect example of this.

Once again if you wanted to press less buttons that was never in this games description (not even in alpha) and it's probably best now if that's your biggest problem to try another game.
I'm not saying I don't want you to play, I'm just saying you might of misunderstood what they were trying to do with this game, make it the best game possible. To do that they need to think outside the box, not conform to other games. It's the FF tradition and it's why they sell millions of copies of they're games.

[Linnear]

Linnear,

I swear my problem is that I can only concentrate on one thing at a time and if that one thing is really boring to me I just can't concentrate on it. This is why it affects people in school, their grades fail if they aren't enjoying a subject they're learning. School just need to be more fun and to the point of what you want to learn. I'm rambling sorry xDD)

This is called being Human, if you don't like something, chances are your not goign to want to put time into it, some people are more diciplined at it then others, ADD in genearl is a lot of BS, it is rarely diagnosed by people who have done research in the field, your General practicioner has no business diagnosing ADD neither do your parents or your teachers. If you suspect you have ADD go se a psycologist if you think it is affecting your ability to do school work. Personally in my expereince it has more to do with boring teachers and out dated teaching methods based on memory recall then problem solving and independant thought, but this is an entirely different problem. In case your curious my younger brother was professionally diagnosed ADD he was on meds but stoped at 16, and my fiances two younger brothers both used druds during their college/university years. I have also done research on the neuro chemistry of the ADD drugs and taken educational training on exceptional learners, so I know a few things on this subject as well.

Because most people (not the smaller percentage of people that want auto-attack) want to feel involved in the video game they're playing, not like some distance figure.

You have no evidence that I am in the minority Esar, unless you have seen some numbers I haven't, if this is your opinion say it as such opposed to claiming it as fact, unless your willing to defend this with data.

We no longer need to be limited by such things, it's the future, we can have a more rewarding game.

Ok Esar lets try this again, AA does NOT LIMIT THE GAME PLAY!!!!!!!! you can have just as many actions and button mashing with AA as without it. Limiting means preventing an action or a process past a preset variable, go look it up if you don't believe me. AA does not do this, everyone that claims this is the case either dones't know the definition of limiting something is, or can't figure out that AA doens't mean that you need to make the game pace slower or input Hitting a button is NOT the future, we have been doing it since PONG!!!!! common seriously if your going to make a comment of this nature, think about it before hand, ask yourself how true is this statement? do I need to reword it so it makes sence? Do I have ANY proof of it at all, How easily can this be refuted? if it is refuted can I defend it? If you can't do any of the above steps then I would sugest refraining from posting grand claims. AA is about 10 years old or so, at least I can't think of an example of a system older than that, unless you count holding down a shoot button for continual firing, hiting buttons for an action is not revolutionary, like I said Pong did it, and every game since then as well until AA started poping up.

I'm not saying I'm better then you or anything, but I'm pretty sure your exaggerating your need for an auto-attack.
It's going to do alot of bad for what this game can be, it's a bad idea (no offence and sorry).

Ok reading comprehension time, when I say "why do 20 when it can be done in 12" then I latter say (in the same post I might add) you can do like wow and have AA and still have 30 is commands a min, and you reply that I say there is a need for auto attack becuase I need fewer commands, your showing me is that you only read sentences one at a time and the text as a whole is meaningless to you. (BTW this is not the result of ADD it is the result of bad reading comprehension, two different problems, if you think ADD stops you from being able to read one page continually, then once again you might want to talk to a professional about it.)


I never said you NEED to reduce inputs( I did say in other posts that for the controller community, with the current UI it currently limits communication and the development of mor einvolved game paly in the future) I said you need to reduce boring tp building ones and replace them with better ones, if you want a butotn masher, that fine thats your opinon but AA DOES NOT STOP THIS!!!, Ok one more time for thoes who still dont' get it. YOU CAN HAVE A BUTTON MASHER AND STILL HAVE AA, this is not a good arguement, it is false, WoW and Rift both do this, if you really want this in FFXIV thats fine, but it DOES NOT MEAN CAN"T HAVE AA please think of something better.

With an extended battle queue it would solve this problem. Yeah you still have to input those 20 commands but it'll flow real nice and every action you select you know is going in the queue, there's no guesswork involved.

Esar this does not help as you still need to input the same moves as before, only you get to put them in before you get the actions, there is no guesswork involved now, I am not sure what you mean by that, I am assuming you mean UI lag issues, but I that has mostly been fixed, and I am taking it for granted that they will continue improving this aspect, if not the queue will not resistate a game that needs a queue to make up for input lag, it is 2011, smoth UIs in online games has been around for 10 years now.

And if you're so adamant on needing to input less, make strings of commands and set them to macros. There, your 20 commands (which is an exaggeration on your behalf) has been changed to just one. Now you can be as distant from the game as you choose.

Did you even read my post?

I do agree that no difference in weapon speed is one of this games biggest problems but how on earth is having no control over your weapon going to help that?

You can figure this one out, I have faith in you.

I'm hoping this was addressed to me and you didn't skip my last post lol. But I've thought alot more into the consequences of adding AA then you have,

Really bad assumption on your part, in the unlikly event that this is true, if you have spent all that time thinking about AA and still can't figure out how this helps weapon speed, still can't see how it doesn't need to limit inputs, How a game can be just as spammy with an AA system? then I don't think I can help you understand.


[QUOTE=ESAR;58256]

Take it from my extremely devoted and well thought out opinion, an auto-attack was not meant for this game, it's an older outdated tech and there are much better rewarding options that can do everything an auto-attack can plus more. [QUOTE]

I know you think your opinion is well thought out, and I am sure you are devoted to this game, but hitting a button for an attack is NOT revolutionary, You hit a button and you swing, you hit another button and you swing, I think I heard of this system..... it is called a VIDEO GAME!!!!, AA is actually a newer mechanic, but if XI was the first game you ever played then I can see why you think this way, but it doesn't make it true.

I'm not saying I don't want you to play, I'm just saying you might of misunderstood what they were trying to do with this game, make it the best game possible. To do that they need to think outside the box, not conform to other games. It's the FF tradition and it's why they sell millions of copies of they're games.

I think you don't have enough experience in games to be able to see how retro the idea of hiting buttons for every attack is, it is a much farther throwback then you seem to acknowledge.

Ok lets try this AGAIN, What is wrong with AA? Someone, anyone give me a solid reason, other then you don't like to see your character do stuff without your input?

Right now I have a couple of pros for AA

All I see now vs AA is I don't like to see my character swing unless I am telling him to... ( I want spam DOES NOT COUNT BECUASE THIS IS NOT TRUE< YOU CAN SPAM WITH AA) hopefully this is the last time I need to describe this.