Auto-attack

[Alcide]

Question for those Against Auto Attack:

MMO needs communication & cooperation with other humans that needs language either writen or spoken. Currently we cant type effectively because we have to be constantly pressing buttons to attack. Also the UI is pretty much $hit for chatting. How will people communicate in battle? Just dont communicate? SE adds Voice Chat system? Create a Gambit System like FFXII? Slow the combat down like it was in Alpha?

Enough with this communication thing, what about Wow and Aion? There's Auto-Attack, but it's useless, you still have to spam skills, the rate at wich someone presses a button is even faster then in FF14, but I've never heared anyone complaining that you can communicate.

You wanna say something during a battle? just stop for a few seconds, no1 will kill you for that...

[ChiefCurrahee]

Enough with this communication thing, what about Wow and Aion? There's Auto-Attack, but it's useless, you still have to spam skills, the rate at wich someone presses a button is even faster then in FF14, but I've never heared anyone complaining that you can communicate.

You wanna say something during a battle? just stop for a few seconds, no1 will kill you for that...

In those games the mechanics for battle are different.

Skills in those games use ONE type of governing system to execute skills. you have Mana/Stamina/Action

Most of your skills are available from the beginning of the fight, you can use your generic light attack and use up just a small portion of one of your governing pools or start with the generic large attack using a large portion of your governing pool.
Those governing pools start at 100% at the start of a fight and RECHARGE ON THIER OWN. The rate of regen is based on stats and gear.

But in FFXIV you use 3 governing systems for skills. MP/Stamina/TP
Your basic attacks use Stamina
your abilities use MP/Stamina
your skills can use all 3!

the only way to recharge your TP to use those skills is to press a button to attack.
Yes lancer gets and ability that regens TP but that skill isn't interchangeable.
The only way to regen MP during battle is to be main mage and use your MP recover skills, or use your TP skills to return MP from dmg dealt. But then you need to have TP available in the first place to use it!

Having Auto Attack = regening governance pools from other MMOs

so lets break it down.
Wow Type games:
Skills use one of the following to execute skills: Mana Stamina Action
most skills are available from the beginning of a fight.
Mana Stamina Action regens w/o player input
you start with 100% in each pool.

FFXIV
skills can use up to 3 governance pools to execute skills: MP Stamina TP
Only Stamina regens on it's own
you start a fight with 0 TP
You have to attack to gain TP
you need TP to execute other skills.

It's like I said get rid of TP in FFXIV and allow us to use any skill as long as we have sufficient stamina and you have a system where auto attack doesn't matter.
But i think people will be even more upset about that than having an AA implemented for TP gain reasons.

So another option which you all know i support is to automate your TP gaining attacks to take some of the load off the players. The battle system will have to be rebalanced in accordance.

Whats not an option is staying with what we have now, as the dev polls show. the "spamming" of skills is the 2nd biggest issue.

[Alcide]

the only way to recharge your TP to use those skills is to press a button to attack.
Yes lancer gets and ability that regens TP but that skill isn't interchangeable.
The only way to regen MP during battle is to be main mage and use your MP recover skills, or use your TP skills to return MP from dmg dealt. But then you need to have TP available in the first place to use it!

Having Auto Attack = regening governance pools from other MMOs

so lets break it down.
Wow Type games:
Skills use one of the following to execute skills: Mana Stamina Action
most skills are available from the beginning of a fight.
Mana Stamina Action regens w/o player input
you start with 100% in each pool.

FFXIV
skills can use up to 3 governance pools to execute skills: MP Stamina TP
Only Stamina regens on it's own
you start a fight with 0 TP
You have to attack to gain TP
you need TP to execute other skills.

It's like I said get rid of TP in FFXIV and allow us to use any skill as long as we have sufficient stamina and you have a system where auto attack doesn't matter.
But i think people will be even more upset about that than having an AA implemented for TP gain reasons.

So another option which you all know i support is to automate your TP gaining attacks to take some of the load off the players. The battle system will have to be rebalanced in accordance.

Whats not an option is staying with what we have now, as the dev polls show. the "spamming" of skills is the 2nd biggest issue.

Do you read what i'm writing? o.O you can use Invigorate with any class and it's still effective, plus I listed other ways to get TP that are much quicker (and definitely funnier) then AA.
Getting MP using TP isn't effective (Damnation sucks), but with Syphon MP you never run out of MP.
The Stamina Gauge is full when you start a fight, if you spam skills you run out of stamina, so actually stopping for a few seconds from attacking is giving you an advantage.
How is this system preventing you from chatting in any different way from any other MMO?

And I already proved many times that you don't have to spam in order to be efficient in a party, why are we still arguing about this? I listed all of the abilities I use and showd I never use the normal attack more then 3 times, with different classes. Isn't it enough?

You wanna talk about the poll? what about the fact that everyone that bought the game was able to do it, but only a small percentage of them got past rank 20? And now tell me a single game where at the beginning you don't use always the same attack.

You know what is an option? you guys try out what me and the others agaisnt AA are saying, I really doubt that after that you'll be wanting that feature.

[kukurumei]

Do you read what i'm writing? o.O you can use Invigorate with any class and it's still effective, plus I listed other ways to get TP that are much quicker (and definitely funnier) then AA.
Getting MP using TP isn't effective (Damnation sucks), but with Syphon MP you never run out of MP.
The Stamina Gauge is full when you start a fight, if you spam skills you run out of stamina, so actually stopping for a few seconds from attacking is giving you an advantage.
How is this system preventing you from chatting in any different way from any other MMO?

And I already proved many times that you don't have to spam in order to be efficient in a party, why are we still arguing about this? I listed all of the abilities I use and showd I never use the normal attack more then 3 times, with different classes. Isn't it enough?

Nope, because less lecturing and more realizing that we've all played the game and know it's tricks and ugliness.

Out of stamina? no problem! cast magic aka cure-a-ton that have low stamina, and high animation time, to get it right back up. I do just fine with loops of 3-4 skills. Sure I can fool myself into thinking 10 skills all carefully timed will net me something...It doesn't.

It's just back to spamming the most efficient method of fighting. Trying to lower our intelligence by trying say we haven't played enough leveled enough or other wise make unfounded comments about things ever one on this board has tried and don't like, is fruitless.

Stamina suffers badly from a balance standpoint, and future balance standpoint. And that's why auto attack is a convenient way to fix it.

No matter how you want to make this battle system a novel, and effective way of playing, it isn't. I can go light 5x+ 2 cures and 5x light or whatever skills I've acquired that are "broken combos" and get the same results and even easier results then you trying to play chess with unyielding system.

[Alcide]

Nope, because less lecturing and more realizing that we've all played the game and know it's tricks and ugliness.

Out of stamina? no problem! cast magic aka cure-a-ton that have low stamina, and high animation time, to get it right back up. I do just fine with loops of 3-4 skills. Sure I can fool myself into thinking 10 skills all carefully timed will net me something...It doesn't.

It's just back to spamming the most efficient method of fighting. Trying to lower our intelligence by trying say we haven't played enough leveled enough or other wise make unfounded comments about things ever one on this board has tried and don't like, is fruitless.

Stamina suffers badly from a balance standpoint, and future balance standpoint. And that's why auto attack is a convenient way to fix it.

No matter how you want to make this battle system a novel, and effective way of playing, it isn't. I can go light 5x+ 2 cures and 5x light or whatever skills I've acquired that are "broken combos" and get the same results and even easier results then you trying to play chess with unyielding system.

Then tell me why every high ranked people I asked agree that the game is not spammy at all, not even the mages, actually this is the first MMO where I saw healers doing both heals and nukes at the same time.

And those people are able to achieve great things in game (the NM we've got right now are terribly easy and that's a fact, but there's a big difference in killing them in 7 minutes and risking the rage and that's that those people that can do it enjoy every fight and not just the fact that they killed a NM)

I'm not trying to lower your intelligence, you're already doing it well by not reading and refusing to try out the things we suggested.

It's really funny, people say that those wanting certain things to stay as they are aren't open minded and can't see the things from someone else's point of view, but we gave examples of tactics that clearely works better than spamming and not everyone are aware of them, but still people refuse to try them out and they keep saying the same things ignoring what we write.

[kukurumei]

It's really funny, people say that those wanting certain things to stay as they are aren't open minded and can't see the things from someone else's point of view, but we gave examples of tactics that clearely works better than spamming and not everyone are aware of them, but still people refuse to try them out and they keep saying the same things ignoring what we write.

Yea...funny how people are leaving the game and polls cite battle system as the leading irritation. Clearly works for those that don't fall victim to the "this sucks" disease.

[gifthorse]

Yea...funny how people are leaving the game and polls cite battle system as the leading irritation. Clearly works for those that don't fall victim to the "this sucks" disease.

autoattack doesnt solve the battle system... it just makes it less involving.

[Alcide]

Yea...funny how people are leaving the game and polls cite battle system as the leading irritation. Clearly works for those that don't fall victim to the "this sucks" disease.

You wanna talk about the poll? what about the fact that everyone that bought the game was able to do it, but only a small percentage of them got past rank 20? And now tell me a single game where at the beginning you don't use always the same attack.

It's really funny, people say that those wanting certain things to stay as they are aren't open minded and can't see the things from someone else's point of view, but we gave examples of tactics that clearely works better than spamming and not everyone are aware of them, but still people refuse to try them out and they keep saying the same things ignoring what we write.

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